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"Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/7/2010 2:20:06 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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"Hobbit-like human ancestor found".
What'cha think?
The title says "ancestor", but the article says they walked the earth with modern man.
quote:
Researchers are also anxious to investigate how and why the hobbits came to be so small. When scientists discovered the hobbit remains, they thought it was the skeleton of a child. There was no record of human adults that were that small. Modern pygmies are considerably taller at about 1.4 to 1.5 meters (4.6 to nearly 5 feet) tall.
"H. floresiensis presents an intriguing problem in evolutionary biology," Brown said.
The most likely explanation is that, over thousands of years, the species became smaller because environmental conditions favored smaller body size. Dwarfing of mammals on islands is a well-known process and seen worldwide. Islands frequently provide a limited food supply, few predators, and few species competing for the same environmental niche. Survival would depend on minimizing daily energy requirements.
But there is no absolute proof that this is what in fact happened with this small human.
"While there are stone tools dated as far back as 840,000 years ago, no fossils of large-bodied ancestors have ever been found" on Flores, Brown said. "There is some possibility [Homo floresiensis] arrived on the island small-bodied."
"I could not have predicted such a discovery in a million years," said Stringer, of London's Natural History Museum. "This find shows us how much we still have to learn about human evolution, particularly in Southeast Asia."
_____________________________
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"Yup, I'm in agreement with Maggie here on all of this" Manda, April 2010
The Ballad of Bad Biruk
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/7/2010 3:06:17 PM
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tacitus
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Well the title is just sloppy journalism in the cause of finding an attention grabbing headline. No scientist believes that this species of eary human is a direct ancestor of modern-day human beings. They are an offshoot that became isolated and eventually adapted to the unique circumstances they found themselves in. It would have been mighty cool if they had survived through to modern times, but it was not to be.
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/7/2010 5:23:50 PM
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slartibartfast9
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Saying that these hobbits are an "offshoot" in the chain which led to modern man can be said about ANYTHING that does not fit into an evolutionists preconceived theory. If we found a 2 foot human, they would say the same thing. If we found a 15 foot human, they would also say the same thing. If we found skulls with alien-like extensions on the skulls which are NOT the result of cultural remolding (which we HAVE), they would also say the same thing.
Evolution is a dangerous theory which is neither proveable NOR disproveable. True science, as any real scientist knows, must have certain characterists: one of which is REPEATABILITY. How, on earth, are we to EVER repeat evolution? All we can do is create it in a laboratory--and even then we are blindly ASSUMING the earth had the SAME variables in the distant past. Science does NOT assume. Quote me on this: macroevolution is the biggest deception of the 20 and 21st century. My belief is that it already is on the path to being broken. The general public does not realize how badly the theory is holding up to the NEWEST research. There is more to DOUBT it at this point than there is to support it. I predict that by the next 50 years, evolution is a laughing stock of society. People will look back and say, "I can't believe people thought that!" But you know what? It will be replaced by something ELSE. The devil never runs short of ammunition. He has plenty of ways to deceive the "intelligent" people.
The truth of these hobbit humans is this:
1) They are NOT dwarfs -- we have found dozens of them and their tools and shelters atest to this fact.
2) They were of equal intelligence to modern mad -- displayed by their craftmanship of tools.
3) They existed as late as late as 8,000 years ago.
4) They were found on Indonesian islands.
5) You hardly heard about this on the news -- aside from a sparse article by scientific magazines and maybe 1 or 2 news reports. Why? Because it presented a "challenge" to evolution, as reported above. But if something comes along which SUPPORTS evolution, my gosh, you won't stop hearing about it. Remember...the prince of this world is Satan.
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/7/2010 5:38:16 PM
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tacitus
Posts: 2314
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Actually, it was all over the science news at the time, and all the evolution blogs and web sites were talking about it for weeks. There was no cover up. Science news in general, outside the science community, never gets that much play in the mainstream media, who are far more fascinated by wardrobe malfunctions and the like.
Having more than one human species (or sub-species) coexisting alongside is nothing new -- we've known about Neanderthals for decades. And given that this happens all the time in other species that are geographically isolated from each other -- tigers, elephants, and camels, to name three classic examples, I don't see how this is as major a problem for evolution as you seem to think it is.
I am afraid you are also wrong about the supposed impending demise of evolution as a scientific theory. If early IDist claims from 20 years ago had been accurate, evolution would no longer exist as a theory today, but evolution will be just as fundamental to the biological sciences in 50 and 100 years as it is today. American creationists have failed miserably in their efforts to discredit evolution, and IDists haven't fared much better. All their attacks are coming in the political realm, simply because they haven't the science to back up their claims.
Oh, by the way, slartibartfast9, did you know that your name is not important..? 
< Message edited by tacitus -- 3/8/2010 1:59:34 AM >
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/7/2010 6:33:02 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2041
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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Well, I've seen two. One goes by the name of "Dr. Ruth", and the other by the name of "Danny DeVito".
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/7/2010 10:57:53 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Evolution is a dangerous theory which is neither proveable NOR disproveable. Amen, stbf9! Preach it!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/8/2010 8:12:31 AM
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creaton
Posts: 180
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quote:
ORIGINAL: slartibartfast9
Saying that these hobbits are an "offshoot" in the chain which led to modern man can be said about ANYTHING that does not fit into an evolutionists preconceived theory. If we found a 2 foot human, they would say the same thing. If we found a 15 foot human, they would also say the same thing. If we found skulls with alien-like extensions on the skulls which are NOT the result of cultural remolding (which we HAVE), they would also say the same thing.
And the creationist would say what - Goddidit?
quote:
Evolution is a dangerous theory which is neither proveable NOR disproveable. True science, as any real scientist knows, must have certain characterists: one of which is REPEATABILITY.
So, you are saying that astronomy is not TROO science because we cannot repeat star formation?
That volcanology is not real science because we cannot repeat the eruption of Vesuvius?
I think what we so often see in such proclamations is a misunderstanding of what is actually meant by 'repeatability.'
quote:
How, on earth, are we to EVER repeat evolution?
No need to, if you know what the repeatability criterion actually means.
quote:
All we can do is create it in a laboratory--and even then we are blindly ASSUMING the earth had the SAME variables in the distant past.
Ah, so now we have put the invincible shield in place!
quote:
Science does NOT assume.
So, you mean that every time an astronomer - you know, those fake science people - looks through a telescope they have to repeat all of the early work on optics?
That when NASA plans a spaceflight, they have to re-confirm how gravity works?
quote:
Quote me on this: macroevolution is the biggest deception of the 20 and 21st century.
Many such quotes have been made and rightly laughed at.
quote:
My belief is that it already is on the path to being broken.
Oh noes! Whatever shall the evil atheist conpsiracy do???? Some dude on a religious discussion forum 'believes' that evolution is on the way out!
quote:
The general public does not realize how badly the theory is holding up to the NEWEST research.
Well, tell us all about it! Demonstrate how this NEW research - being done by whom? - is causing all sorts of problems for evolution.
Also make sure you explain how this NEW research is being done devoid of ASSUMPTIONS.
Can't wait!
quote:
There is more to DOUBT it at this point than there is to support it.
Do tell!
I mean, I know that I am totally convinced by unsupported assertions, but there may be lurkers out there who are not.
Details - for them- please.
quote:
I predict that by the next 50 years, evolution is a laughing stock of society.
Henry Morris predicted that about 30 years ago. Bill Dembski predicted that evolutionwould be gone in 10 years nearly 15 years ago. But I'm sure you will soon present all the facts and evidence that makes your prediction A #1.
quote:
The truth of these hobbit humans is this:
1) They are NOT dwarfs -- we have found dozens of them and their tools and shelters atest to this fact.
2) They were of equal intelligence to modern mad -- displayed by their craftmanship of tools.
3) They existed as late as late as 8,000 years ago.
4) They were found on Indonesian islands.
5) You hardly heard about this on the news -- aside from a sparse article by scientific magazines and maybe 1 or 2 news reports. Why? Because it presented a "challenge" to evolution, as reported above. But if something comes along which SUPPORTS evolution, my gosh, you won't stop hearing about it. Remember...the prince of this world is Satan.
Right.... it is all Satan.
Wow, you had me up until you went all Pentacostal.
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/8/2010 8:17:25 AM
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creaton
Posts: 180
Joined: 9/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Evolution is a dangerous theory which is neither proveable NOR disproveable. Amen, stbf9! Preach it!
I've not really seen anything else on this forum. Odd for a forum titled
Science and Origins."
< Message edited by creaton -- 3/8/2010 8:53:41 AM >
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/8/2010 11:31:38 AM
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tacitus
Posts: 2314
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You do have to remember where you are -- this forum is in the "Theology" section after all.
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/8/2010 12:11:44 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5613
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quote:
this forum is in the "Theology" section after all. ...and part of a CHRISTIAN discussion board!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/8/2010 12:40:16 PM
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creaton
Posts: 180
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
this forum is in the "Theology" section after all. ...and part of a CHRISTIAN discussion board!
Right - well, I guess on a CHRISTIAN board, science is a no-no.
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/8/2010 1:00:23 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5613
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You've certainly not provided any real science here, so thanks for playing along... 
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/8/2010 11:53:02 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5613
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quote:
What is the atheist's? To make Christians appear as "ignorant and unscientific" as possible. Their demonstration of 1 Cor 3:18-20 is spot-on, don't you think O-man?
BTW, what do you think our primary objective is on these S&O threads?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/9/2010 12:36:06 AM
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tacitus
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In truth, I suspect there are a reasonably wide variety of reasons why Christians participate on this board -- including a misguided few who don't get to stay very long as a result. Pick any number from the list below, many of which would apply equally to atheist, agnostic, or Christian:
- To edumacate
- To learn
- To relax
- To have fun
- To demonstrate superior knowledge
- To have an invigorating debate
- To score points
- To flatter one's own ego
- To confirm that you know better than that other lot
- To condescend
- To berate
- To cajole
- To encourage
- To have fellowship
- To relieve boredom
- To challenge
- To be challenged
If you stay around long enough, you get to see all those and probably many more reasons - from Christians and non-Christians alike. We're all human, after all.
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/9/2010 9:05:31 AM
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drmark
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quote:
In truth, I suspect there are a reasonably wide variety of reasons why Christians participate on this board Since you are not one, why are you wasting valuable space with your answer, tacitus?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/9/2010 9:34:55 AM
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abraxas
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Did you read past his first sentence?
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/9/2010 12:29:35 PM
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drmark
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Sure abraxas, that's why I see he doesn't know what he's talking about! Christians do NOT "score points, flatter their own ego, confirm that they know better than others, condescend' berate, or cajole".
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/9/2010 2:12:57 PM
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tacitus
Posts: 2314
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Sure abraxas, that's why I see he doesn't know what he's talking about! Christians do NOT "score points, flatter their own ego, confirm that they know better than others, condescend' berate, or cajole".
Really??? Where on Earth have you been all these years? I guess you could mean that anyone says they are a Christian but engages in those tactics isn't really a Christian (i.e. the No True Scotsman fallacy) but honestly, I don't see how you can make that claim with a straight face. (Maybe you should take a little side trip to the Current Events folder some time, though this folder isn't short of examples either.)
I know that one person on this board makes the claim that he never sins (not you, I hasten to add), but do you seriously believe that all Christians on this board are always and only on here for the purest of intentions? I'm sorry, but it doesn't take very long to dig up examples of all those things I listed on this board, and that's just the posts that survived deletion. I am not going to name names since that would be against the rules, but I can think of the names of at least half a dozen long standing members that regularly do these things, and I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of their faith.
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/9/2010 2:23:35 PM
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tacitus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
In truth, I suspect there are a reasonably wide variety of reasons why Christians participate on this board Since you are not one, why are you wasting valuable space with your answer, tacitus?
Wow, one moment I am a Calvinist, and the next I am an atheist. Talk about whiplash.
In truth, I have never made any explicit personal statement of faith of any kind on this board -- and I choose to keep it that way, as is my right. You are free to make your own assumptions of course, but I do believe that telling me what I am based on those assumptions is frowned upon around here.
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/9/2010 2:54:15 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5613
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quote:
In truth, I have never made any explicit personal statement of faith of any kind on this board -- and I choose to keep it that way, as is my right. That's very tacitful of you...
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/9/2010 3:13:44 PM
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creaton
Posts: 180
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Sure abraxas, that's why I see he doesn't know what he's talking about! Christians do NOT "score points, flatter their own ego, confirm that they know better than others, condescend' berate, or cajole".
So, you've not read any of your own posts?
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/9/2010 3:16:29 PM
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creaton
Posts: 180
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
What is the atheist's? To make Christians appear as "ignorant and unscientific" as possible.
Actually, you folks do that for yourselves pretty nicely.
Whenever some evidence is dismissed with a bible verse, you demonstrate it.
quote:
BTW, what do you think our primary objective is on these S&O threads?
Hard to tell.
I see lots of hiding behind Scriptural authority and blind adoration or God, but no science. I see lots of assertions of science, but no follow ups.
So this board is really named incorrectly.
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RE: "Hobbit"-like skeleton found - 3/9/2010 3:44:36 PM
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tacitus
Posts: 2314
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Well, we have probably strayed way too far off topic (I am party to blame for that too), but I really don't see the point of this discussion.
The bottom line is that this is a right-wing Christian message board with clearly stated objectives and rules that favor Biblical literalism and inerrancy, and hence creationism, and to top it all off, the only science-related section is in the Theology folder. If you came here expecting anything else, then you were mistaken.
The nice thing about the board is that, as long as you stay within the rules, you can argue against those positions as much as you want, but no one should seriously expect that any of the threads debate science and scientific evidence only.
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