|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/17/2010 4:27:45 PM
|
|
|
Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 8549
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
|
quote:
Doctrine: The Essential Foundation
John MacArthur - Grace to You
It's become increasingly apparent that the contemporary mind is suspicious of propositional truth. The culture has imbibed the postmodernism construct: propositions lead to doctrines, which lead to theologies, which form the meta-narratives that the elite and powerful use to dominate, manipulate, and take advantage of the masses. "No more propositions, doctrines, and imperialistic meta-narratives," they say. "Just show us Jesus by what you do."
That may sound good, but it's fundamentally flawed. If you can't use propositions, who's to say what kind of living is more or less like Jesus? At some point, the propositions are brought out, doctrines are stated, theologies take shape, and it's one meta-narrative versus another.
At the heart of contemporary concern is what many have observed-cold, dead, compassionless "Christians" touting doctrines they don't really believe. They are like those Paul warned Timothy about: they hold "to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power" (2 Timothy 3:5).
True biblical doctrine is practical. In fact, nothing is more practical than sound doctrine. Those who listen to right doctrine and put it into practice are transformed by it.
<<SNIP>>
Those who don't know what the Bible teaches about salvation cannot be saved. Those who don't know what the Bible teaches about holiness are incapable of dealing with sin. Thus they are unable to live fully to their own blessedness and God's glory.
In our day, when so many are denying the clarity of the Bible, the practicality of doctrine, and the inadequacy of theology in favor of ethical and social concerns, it's time to reassert the essential place of Christian doctrine...
Read the rest of Doctrine: The Essential Foundation
Am I taking this out of context of the article?
"Those who don't know what the Bible teaches about salvation cannot be saved. "
What are your thoughts?
_____________________________
Fred "Fritz" Alberti
Director of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Read today's Bible verse from my favorite online Bible
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/17/2010 4:38:24 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 9189
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
|
quote:
Those who don't know what the Bible teaches about salvation cannot be saved.
I agree. If I were lost and someone told me that Jesus was a lesser prophet to Muhammad and that salvation is granted to those who follow the tenets of Islam, then I'm not going to be saved. Same thing if I'm presented with the teachings of Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses. I bolded the key point, "about salvation."
And, as I understand the complete article, unless we learn what the Bible teaches about many things, even if we are saved, we will become malnourished, confused, and ineffective Christians at best. We'll also teach others to be like us.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/17/2010 6:14:39 PM
|
|
|
trey182
Posts: 365
Joined: 1/6/2010
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
|
I think that if someone doesn't understand "salvation", or "how to receive salvation", then they probably haven't received "salvation."
But, the thing is, God wrote the law on our hearts. So I think people can understand or receive salvation without even having heard of the Bible before (like far away tribes untouched by modern civilization.) I think God can reveal Himself to them (and has done so, if He has written the law on their hearts.) They might not call Him the same thing or have a full understanding, but I think God can save people through what they can learn from what God wrote on their hearts. They can look around, see that there must be a Creator who made them, recognize that by their existence the Creator loves them, and recognize that the Creator gives His Love to them, sent that Love into the world, a world that is full of suffering, and they can recognize that that is the greatest love. They might not know the history of Jesus, but I think they can recognize that the Creator loves them so much that He sends His Love to them despite the suffering that the Love would be around, and they can embrace that Love. So I think people can know what the Bible teaches about salvation without having ever having heard of the Bible or Jesus or God.
That's just my view anyways. Many will disagree with me, but thats okay, you can believe what you want : )
_____________________________
God Is Love.
1 John 4:8 -- John 15:13 -- Matthew 22:36-40 -- Galatians 5:22
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/17/2010 8:19:57 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 9189
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: trey182
But, the thing is, God wrote the law on our hearts...
The the whole Great Commission and evangelism in general is a complete waste of efforts?
IMHO, you misunderstand Paul's writing on the subject. He wrote that nobody is without excuse as far as knowing that God exists. But Jesus stated there is one single way to heaven and ignorance of the ful Gospel is not it. Either Jesuswas wrong or He wasn't about salvation.
FYI: He wasn't.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/17/2010 8:20:52 PM
|
|
|
LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2391
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
quote:
Doctrine: The Essential Foundation
John MacArthur - Grace to You
It's become increasingly apparent that the contemporary mind is suspicious of propositional truth. The culture has imbibed the postmodernism construct: propositions lead to doctrines, which lead to theologies, which form the meta-narratives that the elite and powerful use to dominate, manipulate, and take advantage of the masses. "No more propositions, doctrines, and imperialistic meta-narratives," they say. "Just show us Jesus by what you do."
That may sound good, but it's fundamentally flawed. If you can't use propositions, who's to say what kind of living is more or less like Jesus? At some point, the propositions are brought out, doctrines are stated, theologies take shape, and it's one meta-narrative versus another.
At the heart of contemporary concern is what many have observed-cold, dead, compassionless "Christians" touting doctrines they don't really believe. They are like those Paul warned Timothy about: they hold "to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power" (2 Timothy 3:5).
True biblical doctrine is practical. In fact, nothing is more practical than sound doctrine. Those who listen to right doctrine and put it into practice are transformed by it.
<<SNIP>>
Those who don't know what the Bible teaches about salvation cannot be saved. Those who don't know what the Bible teaches about holiness are incapable of dealing with sin. Thus they are unable to live fully to their own blessedness and God's glory.
In our day, when so many are denying the clarity of the Bible, the practicality of doctrine, and the inadequacy of theology in favor of ethical and social concerns, it's time to reassert the essential place of Christian doctrine...
Read the rest of Doctrine: The Essential Foundation
Am I taking this out of context of the article?
"Those who don't know what the Bible teaches about salvation cannot be saved. "
What are your thoughts?
Greetings
I had no clue what the sinners pray was and shortly after that commitment when the deliverance came ....the Lord at that very point in time slapped the knowledge of the scriptures in me before I even read the book,
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
And the reason why I know this... is directly after... the next day as a matter of fact...I had asked 2 people who were knowledgeable a specific question and nether one of them could find it in the scriptures,
So I went and showed them where it was.... (Not me) 
quote:
"Those who don't know what the Bible teaches about salvation cannot be saved. "
What are your thoughts?
It’s a bunch of bull!!
Because in verse 3:20 above ….Jesus said ... if any man “hear” my voice, well one can not “hear” His voice... until they are saved.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/17/2010 9:51:00 PM
|
|
|
trey182
Posts: 365
Joined: 1/6/2010
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: trey182
But, the thing is, God wrote the law on our hearts...
The the whole Great Commission and evangelism in general is a complete waste of efforts?
IMHO, you misunderstand Paul's writing on the subject. He wrote that nobody is without excuse as far as knowing that God exists. But Jesus stated there is one single way to heaven and ignorance of the ful Gospel is not it. Either Jesuswas wrong or He wasn't about salvation.
FYI: He wasn't.
I don't think it is a waste of efforts, and it is not, because it is easier for someone to understand when someone tells them the message of salvation rather than them having to realize it on their own.
So what is your opinion on the people in tribes where missionaries haven't been able to get to yet? What about all the people who have died without having ever known of the actual events and contents in the Bible? What do you think God does with them?
_____________________________
God Is Love.
1 John 4:8 -- John 15:13 -- Matthew 22:36-40 -- Galatians 5:22
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/18/2010 8:35:21 AM
|
|
|
Grace71
Posts: 513
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline
|
Wouldn't that make salvation dependant on our works(Knowing the bible)? I thought salvation was a free gift of God? What about those who can't read? Many times missionaries go to places that don't have a translation, or to people so poor and without education they can't spell thier own name.I really this he missed it on this one.
_____________________________
My facebook page. Pics from nature around my home and other stuff-http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=249894&id=1720759536#!/?ref=home
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/18/2010 8:46:24 AM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 8180
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
How much "Bible Knowledge" are we taling about here.
Christ said;
(Joh 17:20) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Now are we talking about just learning the Bible truth of the Gospel (John 3:16) or are we talking about indepth knowledge of the atonement, OT history, etc. etc.
I belive that very little "Knowledge" of the Bible is necessay for Salvation as in the God that created all things loves you and gave His Son Jesus to die for you so you have the opportunity to believe in God through Jesus.
I personally have seen thousands of folks come to the saving Grace by just telling them that God loves them, and wants them to be with Him forever; and here is how it is done. Straightforward, simple, and wonderful.
Then they can (and will desire) to;
(Eph 4:12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
(Eph 4:13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Please note that it is "Saints" who are growing in knowledge, not the lost.
Me thinks sometimes we get the cart before the horse.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/18/2010 10:20:46 AM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 5613
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
"Those who don't know what the Bible teaches about salvation cannot be saved. "
What are your thoughts? My thought is that MacArthur starts with the assumptions of classic Reformed Theology and derives some faulty conclusions from them. Paul makes it very clear in Romans 10:9 that we are saved by faith that Christ is Lord Who rose from the dead. In 1 Cor 15:2-4, Paul clearly states the "minimum requirements" for a sinner to understand the gospel. I see nothing listed there about "knowing what the Bible teaches about salvation".
I agree completely with RC - some theologians get the cart before the horse!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/18/2010 2:47:34 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 9189
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
"Those who don't know what the Bible teaches about salvation cannot be saved. "
What are your thoughts? My thought is that MacArthur starts with the assumptions of classic Reformed Theology and derives some faulty conclusions from them. Paul makes it very clear in Romans 10:9 that we are saved by faith that Christ is Lord Who rose from the dead. In 1 Cor 15:2-4, Paul clearly states the "minimum requirements" for a sinner to understand the gospel. I see nothing listed there about "knowing what the Bible teaches about salvation".
I agree completely with RC - some theologians get the cart before the horse!
Nobody can lead a person to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ without using that minimum from biblical teaching on salvation, what the essence of the true Gospel is from the Bible itself. If that person is presented with "another" Gospel than what is found in the Bible, then they will be deceived.
I find it interesting that you cite the Bible teaching on salvation in attempting to make your point. And rightly so because its teaching on salvation is the only reliable source we have for accurately conveying the Gospel to the lost.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/20/2010 12:39:04 AM
|
|
|
Ezra
Posts: 1828
Status: offline
|
Every sinner needs to know what God has revealed about Himself, about Christ, about His Law, about His Gospel, and about sinners and their fate. This is all "Bible knowledge" for salvation -- to bring sinners to the Savior.
As to "post-modernism" the less said the better. Men have not changed since Adam disobeyed God.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/20/2010 1:59:35 AM
|
|
|
Elijiah
Posts: 5
Joined: 5/4/2007
Status: offline
|
Yes this is a interesting subject. Father God has elected all for salvation and made all qualified to receive the free gift of salvation. He died for all of mans sins. So is the knowledge of Gods word needed to gain salvaiton. I will assure you that it is not. Salvation of not of works least any should boast. It is a work fo Grace. Many durh users have reported only calling on the Name of Jesus, ( they knew nothing else to do ) and they were saved some went on to be minsters of the Lord. Others report the same. Our part is actually the greater part of the salvation plan from a number of view points.
Lets say a bunch of church folks picked 10 names out of the phone book and started praying for there hearts to be open to savation and also to be sofened toward receiving knowledge of Christ. And for God to save them. Do you know those people would get saved. Actually they would indeed get saved. People get saved because God hears our prayers. The word of God is a seed that is sown will mature and bear fruit. Thus when a seed is planted it brings froth fruit. So indeed we do need to interduce the Word to people and speak to them about Jesus and his gift. But Prayer and Love are the keys to salvation. Many people the world over have received salvation by the simple preaching of the gosple. God does also hear the prayer Help Lord, help Jesus.
He is not a hard task master and he knows who will be saved. So even when a sinner is doing wrong many a time God will step in and help him because he sees down the road to the day when he will get saved. Gods way are not our ways, and we should thank the Lord for that.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/20/2010 3:52:39 PM
|
|
|
gr8ce2u
Posts: 3
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline
|
In Romans 3:10-11, Paul writes, "There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God".. In John 6:44, Jesus says, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." Then Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 2:14, "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are fooliness to him, and he cannot understand them because they are spiritually discern." Then in in Romans 8:7, Paul again states, "the sinful mind is hostile to God." First, no one can come to God unless God draws him. Second, the sinful mind, without the Holy Spirit is hostile to God. Thirdly if the lost don't have the Holy Spirit in them, how can they understand scripture or the things of God, because it is the Holy Spirit who interprets spirituall things. Therefore, unless God is drawing a person to Him, an unsaved person can sit in church and hear the gospel, read the bible and it have no signifiance to that person. It is God who draws people, it is Jesus who saves people and it is the Holy Spirit who interprets the things of God. God does it, we don't unless he uses us as His instrument in sharing God's truth. The real problem comes after a person is saved. As Oswald Chambers states, "when a person is saved, then the battle starts. The flesh pulls out his dagger and the Holy Spirit pulls out His dagger and the battle is on". Our purpose is to develop the mind of Christ, and without the Holy Spirit, that cannot happen.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/22/2010 2:00:02 AM
|
|
|
Doctrinor
Posts: 92
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
Fritz I feel like as MacArthur it is important to know salvation if after you are saved and if that might be what is meant in the article--
And I feel (in my life far from solid good churches) I need to know the good doctrine and even keep a lot of books handy that are Biblically solid not that anyone else has to do it this way now. I think in the future we might see some crazy teachings rise it up on the horizon that will not be real or good or true.. Many get snagged by such stuff .I don't want to be taken or fooled by.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/23/2010 4:58:06 PM
|
|
|
mysteryofgospel
Posts: 252
Joined: 8/12/2009
Status: offline
|
You don't need to know doctrine to be saved. Salvation is very simple.
All you need to know is Romans 10:9,10, everyone's salvation hinges on these two verses.
'that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.'
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/23/2010 5:03:57 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 9189
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mysteryofgospel
You don't need to know doctrine to be saved. Salvation is very simple.
All you need to know is Romans 10:9,10, everyone's salvation hinges on these two verses.
'that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.'
I agree with what you said about doctrine.
However, what you wrote after that comes from the Bible. So, IMHO, one must know what the Bible teaches about salvation in order to be saved.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/23/2010 6:51:29 PM
|
|
|
mysteryofgospel
Posts: 252
Joined: 8/12/2009
Status: offline
|
Euty,
Sorry, I was trying to say that if you had no other biblical teaching but these two verses, you could be saved. Does that make better sense?
So, I guess, in the context of the OP, and from our standpoint of proclaiming Christ to the world, one cannot be saved without Bible teaching.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/23/2010 7:57:48 PM
|
|
|
LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2391
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mysteryofgospel
You don't need to know doctrine to be saved. Salvation is very simple.
All you need to know is Romans 10:9,10, everyone's salvation hinges on these two verses.
'that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.'
Greetings
1Sa 2:3 Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let [not] arrogance come out of your mouth: for the LORD [is] a God of knowledge, and by him >>>actions are weighed.
Those 2 verses in Romans 10:9,10 is that both before and after, the same action is required
The only difference in those 2 verses is…. that the first time, we had no knowledge; but believed in Him through their word = of the preacher... John 17:20
The action mentioned 1Sa 2:3; that God weighs in the life of a believer; after we were saved; is the exactly the same as before we were saved...
BUT after the Holy Spirit is given... then we believe on Him, not by the words of the preacher (John 17:20)...but by the Spirit of God= (or by the knowledge of God)= Mat 11:27
Therefore=(those 2 verses in Romans 10:9,10 are required; both before and after
And that action mentioned in 1Sa 2:3 ... that God weigh in the balance ...is this here....
Rom 10:13 For ..."whosoever"... = (sinner or saint).....shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Beforehand ….we had no knowledge (and “were” saved) =Eph 2:9
Afterwards …. we have the knowledge (and ...”are”… saved)
1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish… (IS) foolishness;
But unto us ….Which "are ” saved…. = (afterwards)
It is the power of God.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/23/2010 9:33:40 PM
|
|
|
jjbird
Posts: 828
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mysteryofgospel
You don't need to know doctrine to be saved. Salvation is very simple.
All you need to know is Romans 10:9,10, everyone's salvation hinges on these two verses.
'that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.'
This is a very common mistake.
Paul is not teaching how one is saved but on what basis. He was addressing an issue that was very common among the first century churches called the Jewish/Gentile Controversy.......Jewish Christians were trying to force Gentile Christians to obey the law of Moses first (basically become Jews) before they could become Christians. But Paul says NO.....salvation is by faith like Abraham not by works of the law of Moses.
That is why he says all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved meaning anyone Jew or Gentile.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/23/2010 9:49:17 PM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 5613
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
Paul is not teaching how one is saved but on what basis. This is semantic gamesmanship. The basis upon which something is done is exactly how it is done. The basis upon which I style my hair is a brush and blow dryer. A brush and blow dryer is how I style my hair.
The basis upon which we are saved is faith in Christ and His grace. Faith in Christ and His grace is how we are saved.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/23/2010 11:06:41 PM
|
|
|
jjbird
Posts: 828
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Paul is not teaching how one is saved but on what basis. This is semantic gamesmanship. The basis upon which something is done is exactly how it is done. The basis upon which I style my hair is a brush and blow dryer. A brush and blow dryer is how I style my hair.
The basis upon which we are saved is faith in Christ and His grace. Faith in Christ and His grace is how we are saved.
Context is key my friend.
Paul is addressing a very specific issue the church was having. You have got to pay attention to the context.
Paul does not mention repentance in Romans 10 and other scriptures in the bible do for salvation.
I already shared scriptures that explicitly spoke of receiving salvation and the Holy Spirit when we obey as well yet you haven't agreed to them.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/24/2010 7:04:03 AM
|
|
|
Linkoln
Posts: 13
Joined: 3/26/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Paul is not teaching how one is saved but on what basis. This is semantic gamesmanship. The basis upon which something is done is exactly how it is done. The basis upon which I style my hair is a brush and blow dryer. A brush and blow dryer is how I style my hair.
The basis upon which we are saved is faith in Christ and His grace. Faith in Christ and His grace is how we are saved.
Context is key my friend.
Paul is addressing a very specific issue the church was having. You have got to pay attention to the context.
Paul does not mention repentance in Romans 10 and other scriptures in the bible do for salvation.
I already shared scriptures that explicitly spoke of receiving salvation and the Holy Spirit when we obey as well yet you haven't agreed to them.
Context is important! That is a good statement!
In Romans 10 you can clearly see (at least I hope you can) that Paul is talking about salvation that is through faith alone (please don't get stuck on the word alone). When someone places their faith in Christ for salvation they are coming to God knowing for the first time perhaps how utterly sinful they are. They have a deep conviction from God about their sin and come to Him with a heart of repentance.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/24/2010 8:41:39 AM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 5613
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
I already shared scriptures that explicitly spoke of receiving salvation and the Holy Spirit when we obey as well yet you haven't agreed to them. I don't agree with your faulty interpretation of these Scriptures because they do NOT explicitly teach that we receive salvation when we obey. In fact, you have this completely backwards, bj! We obey only when we have first been saved by grace through faith in Christ.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/24/2010 9:25:38 AM
|
|
|
jjbird
Posts: 828
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
I already shared scriptures that explicitly spoke of receiving salvation and the Holy Spirit when we obey as well yet you haven't agreed to them. I don't agree with your faulty interpretation of these Scriptures because they do NOT explicitly teach that we receive salvation when we obey. In fact, you have this completely backwards, bj! We obey only when we have first been saved by grace through faith in Christ.
I am not saying you trust in the obedience. The bible teaches that we obey while trusting in God. Faith is the foundation of our obedience.
The Jews obeyed the law but did not put their faith in Christ. That was Paul's argument......Talking to the Jewish Christians in Galatia he rebukes them Galatians 3:10
Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
It is explicitly stated!
Of course the context is faithful obedience. Any one who trusts in their works has faith that is in vain.
As we obey we trust in God not in ourselves. Obedience is a faithful response to God's word! I agree with you however the moment of salvation comes when we obey.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bible knowledge necessary for salvation? - 2/24/2010 12:43:27 PM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 5613
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
Faith is the foundation of our obedience. No, it is NOT! God's grace and power are the foundation of our obedience which demonstrates our genuine faith in Christ.
quote:
The Jews obeyed the law but did not put their faith in Christ. No, they did NOT obey the Law or they would not need to be saved from their sins!
quote:
It is explicitly stated! Neither one of those verses "explicitly" state that we are saved when we obey. That is your faulty interpretation based on your preconceived doctrinal assumption.
quote:
Of course the context is faithful obedience. Any one who trusts in their works has faith that is in vain.
As we obey we trust in God not in ourselves. Obedience is a faithful response to God's word! Finally, something we can agree on! But this comes as a result, NOT the cause, of our salvation.
quote:
I agree with you however the moment of salvation comes when we obey. Apparently you misread my post. The moment of salvation comes when we appropriate God's saving grace by believing in Christ. After that moment, we obey because God's Love empowers us to obey.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
