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JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 12:04:21 AM
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rmoore1925
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The insidious part of this false Gospel in Galatians is that it didn’t completely
eliminate Jesus from the equation. It was a “Jesus plus” false message. Jesus
plus certain rules. Jesus plus certain practices. Jesus plus certain traditions.
What are some of the “Jesus plus” additions that get added to our faith these
days?
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 12:25:06 AM
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Amicizia
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'Jesus plus water baptism' is one of them IMO
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 6:32:43 AM
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DaveW
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Actually I find the "Jesus Only"* mentality as fraught with error as the "Jesus Plus..." mindset.
* I am not refering to the 'Jesus only' baptismal formula that precludes baptism in the name of Father Son and Spirit.
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 6:55:36 AM
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greatdivide46
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Amicizia
'Jesus plus water baptism' is one of them IMO
I would agree. That is your opinion. It certainly isn't scripture.
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greatdivide46
He said he had been deeply worried about having a general aesthetic and had been delighted to be offered the epidural in his spine. -- Jane Elliott, BBC News
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 8:37:09 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46quote:
ORIGINAL: Amicizia
'Jesus plus water baptism' is one of them IMO I would agree. That is your opinion. It certainly isn't scripture. So it is just Jesus and forget the baptism?
That does not work either.
_____________________________
Avatar is my son Caleb and Leah on their wedding 12/20/09
=======================
Winner of 2010 "best in "He Says"
=======================
Our CD is available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 8:56:42 AM
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rcjames
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Lets not forget Jesus plus repentance (Acts 2:38)
or
Jesus plus obedience (Luke 6:46, John 14:15).
Thanks
RC
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 9:55:11 AM
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MysterySolved
Posts: 307
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There is no end to the things man can come up with to add to the simplicity which is in Christ. The Gospel is not a thing, it is Jesus Christ, and His death, burial and resurrection.
Jesus plus nothing.
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 10:38:43 AM
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ChainSaw
Posts: 1554
Joined: 10/17/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rmoore1925
The insidious part of this false Gospel in Galatians is that it didn’t completely
eliminate Jesus from the equation. It was a “Jesus plus” false message. Jesus
plus certain rules. Jesus plus certain practices. Jesus plus certain traditions.
What are some of the “Jesus plus” additions that get added to our faith these
days?
Some teachers say that John 15 means if you aren't fruitful in leading others to Christ you will be cast into hell. IOW, if you don't witness you cannot be saved.
Some also say to suppress an opportunity to witness to somebody is to deny Jesus, so Jesus in turn will deny you before the Father.
_____________________________
"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 10:42:07 AM
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ChainSaw
Posts: 1554
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MysterySolved
There is no end to the things man can come up with to add to the simplicity which is in Christ. The Gospel is not a thing, it is Jesus Christ, and His death, burial and resurrection.
Jesus plus nothing.
This is true. It's what works must invariably accompany a genuine salvation that we must understand so if we don't have those signs of salvation at work in us we can see our lack of saving faith and lay hold of the faith that saves.
The Bible makes it clear what the signs of a genuine salvation are (and what signs are not)...and it's not what a lot of people defend.
_____________________________
"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 10:59:37 AM
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MysterySolved
Posts: 307
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChainSaw
quote:
ORIGINAL: MysterySolved
There is no end to the things man can come up with to add to the simplicity which is in Christ. The Gospel is not a thing, it is Jesus Christ, and His death, burial and resurrection.
Jesus plus nothing.
This is true. It's what works must invariably accompany a genuine salvation that we must understand so if we don't have those signs of salvation at work in us we can see our lack of saving faith and lay hold of the faith that saves.
The Bible makes it clear what the signs of a genuine salvation are (and what signs are not)...and it's not what a lot of people defend.
There are plenty of secular people and agencies that perform all the same good works and exhibit what appears to others to be good fruit. Does that make them saved?
Fruit and works are a fickle thing to use in judging your own or another's salvation. They are both easily imitated.
It is interesting how many will trust in Christ for their salvation, but who will then turn around and say it is up to us to do the rest. It is all Him, from beginning to end, and He is sufficient.
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 11:27:36 AM
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doinkdom
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I consider Jesus "only" as inclusive...we will bear good fruit, we will read His word, honor and obey, live a confessional/repentent life and share His good news with others.
All those things are a part of being a Christ follower.
If we are talking about Jesus plus baptism, etc. as salvific, then I would agree that we should not add anything. The only way is Jesus, but again, that for me is inclusive of everything Jesus laid out for us as an example to include doing outward things such as baptism as an inward reflection of our salvation.
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 12:15:17 PM
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Lady_Daffodil
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quote:
Some teachers say that John 15 means if you aren't fruitful in leading others to Christ you will be cast into hell. IOW, if you don't witness you cannot be saved.
Some also say to suppress an opportunity to witness to somebody is to deny Jesus, so Jesus in turn will deny you before the Father.
Then, it's "Jesus plus witnessing"? I stuggle with this, because I'm so hesitant about witnessing. The few times I've tried to share my faith with people, the words don't seem to come out right. I believe totally in Jesus and totall desire and accept His gift of eternal life. I would think this would be enough. I'd like to think that Jesus' blood covers ALL our sins, even the "sin" of not witnessing. I think that for someone to "reject" Christ means not having any interest in Him at all, it has to be a CONSCIOUS THING. People who do that don't care about going to Heaven because they don't even believe in Heaven, or even in God. I don't consider myself one of them. I'm not saying I'm a good person, because I totally admit I'm not. I'm lazy and timid and lots of other things, but I love Jesus and want to be with Him. And I pray every day to God to give me opportunities to share my faith, and not only that, for Him to give me the DESIRE to speak up, give me the WORDS to say, and to make the other person RESPONSIVE, or to at least cause seeds to be planted in the person's hear that will someday be watered by someone else.
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 12:19:49 PM
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Grace71
Posts: 489
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
I consider Jesus "only" as inclusive...we will bear good fruit, we will read His word, honor and obey, live a confessional/repentent life and share His good news with others.
All those things are a part of being a Christ follower.
If we are talking about Jesus plus baptism, etc. as salvific, then I would agree that we should not add anything. The only way is Jesus, but again, that for me is inclusive of everything Jesus laid out for us as an example to include doing outward things such as baptism as an inward reflection of our salvation.
I agree. I also think it is the Holy Spirit in us that makes us want to do these outward things. I know that I have tried on my own strength do accomplish alot for God, but it never worked because I was trusting in myself to to do them, instead of God working through me.
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 2:08:59 PM
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ChainSaw
Posts: 1554
Joined: 10/17/2009
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MysterySolved
quote:
ORIGINAL: ChainSaw
quote:
ORIGINAL: MysterySolved
There is no end to the things man can come up with to add to the simplicity which is in Christ. The Gospel is not a thing, it is Jesus Christ, and His death, burial and resurrection.
Jesus plus nothing.
This is true. It's what works must invariably accompany a genuine salvation that we must understand so if we don't have those signs of salvation at work in us we can see our lack of saving faith and lay hold of the faith that saves.
The Bible makes it clear what the signs of a genuine salvation are (and what signs are not)...and it's not what a lot of people defend.
There are plenty of secular people and agencies that perform all the same good works and exhibit what appears to others to be good fruit. Does that make them saved?
Fruit and works are a fickle thing to use in judging your own or another's salvation. They are both easily imitated.
It is interesting how many will trust in Christ for their salvation, but who will then turn around and say it is up to us to do the rest. It is all Him, from beginning to end, and He is sufficient.
The Bible does not leave us clueless about the works that follow a genuine salvation. It (not me) instructs us on what to look for to validate a legitimate, saving relationship with God through faith. Passing out socks to earthquake victims, for example, would only qualify as one of several things that can are used to validate saving faith. The Bible also plainly talks about people doing good things but who will be rejected in the end for other reasons. Signs of salvation is not an extra-Biblical subject in the least.
I don't know why people want to throw out plain Biblical counsel because they know about a wonderful atheist sweating in the jungles of Cambodia, or wherever, and think people are arguing that's the only sign of salvation.
_____________________________
"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 2:14:09 PM
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ChainSaw
Posts: 1554
Joined: 10/17/2009
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lady_Daffodil
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Amicizia
'Jesus plus water baptism' is one of them IMO
I would agree. That is your opinion. It certainly isn't scripture.
But it does say in the 2nd chapter of Acts that those that want to be saved should repent and be baptized.
"...should want to repent and be baptized" is probably a better way to understand it.
I'm exaggerating of course, but after I got saved if God had said, "fall off a cliff" I would have said, "which one".
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"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 2:27:50 PM
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ChainSaw
Posts: 1554
Joined: 10/17/2009
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lady_Daffodil
quote:
Some teachers say that John 15 means if you aren't fruitful in leading others to Christ you will be cast into hell. IOW, if you don't witness you cannot be saved.
Some also say to suppress an opportunity to witness to somebody is to deny Jesus, so Jesus in turn will deny you before the Father.
Then, it's "Jesus plus witnessing"? I stuggle with this, because I'm so hesitant about witnessing. The few times I've tried to share my faith with people, the words don't seem to come out right. I believe totally in Jesus and totall desire and accept His gift of eternal life. I would think this would be enough. I'd like to think that Jesus' blood covers ALL our sins, even the "sin" of not witnessing. I think that for someone to "reject" Christ means not having any interest in Him at all, it has to be a CONSCIOUS THING. People who do that don't care about going to Heaven because they don't even believe in Heaven, or even in God. I don't consider myself one of them. I'm not saying I'm a good person, because I totally admit I'm not. I'm lazy and timid and lots of other things, but I love Jesus and want to be with Him. And I pray every day to God to give me opportunities to share my faith, and not only that, for Him to give me the DESIRE to speak up, give me the WORDS to say, and to make the other person RESPONSIVE, or to at least cause seeds to be planted in the person's hear that will someday be watered by someone else.
Unless you have a Pauline calling on your life (which I'm guessing you don't) do not worry another second about what amount of witnessing you should be doing.
Romans 12 in the first few verses tells us to walk in the particular gift we have received, and do it according to the measure of faith, how great or how small that is, that we've been given to do it in.
I learned the secret to walking in your gift and avoid making it a fleshly work of effort you feel you must do for God is to seek the power of God's love for others inside of you. Out of that love for others you'll gravitate toward what God has equipped you to do, and with the measure of faith he gave you to do it, do it because you care about them. That is what it means to perform the works of the Spirit that count, and not just do things in our own strength because we think we have to.
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"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 4:05:20 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5352
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Witnessing is very important to God, not to mention the basis of the great commission.
1 Peter 3:15 ...but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, ...
Evangelism might be a spiritual gift, but for the rest of us, it is more of a matter of obedience, gratefullness wth thanksgiving for our own salvation.
But still...witnessing is not salvific.
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Our furball Niko, lounging around...
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 5:12:24 PM
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ChainSaw
Posts: 1554
Joined: 10/17/2009
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
Witnessing is very important to God, not to mention the basis of the great commission.
1 Peter 3:15 ...but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, ...
Evangelism might be a spiritual gift, but for the rest of us, it is more of a matter of obedience, gratefullness wth thanksgiving for our own salvation.
But still...witnessing is not salvific.
Unless you have a Pauline type calling, witnessing is a sacrifice of your service, not a required obedience. And according to Romans 12 it's a sacrifice you make according to your giftedness and faith to walk in that giftedness, not a sacrifice made according to someone else's gifting and level of faith.
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"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 5:25:06 PM
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ChainSaw
Posts: 1554
Joined: 10/17/2009
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lady_Daffodil
The Bible also plainly talks about people doing good things but who will be rejected in the end for other reasons.
That "other reason" being that they didn't accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, isn't the correct?
Yep.
1 John 3:22-24
...we have confidence before God 22and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. 23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.
24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them.
It's interesting, but when you look at all the passages about 'love' and obeying the commands of God and that being the signifying mark of the true believer, it's primarily talking about love for the Body of Christ, the 'child/ children' of God. Well meaning atheists hardly love Christ and his Body, let alone believe that Jesus is the Son of God. They're quite busy pushing legislation outlawing all open expressions of love for Jesus and the Church and busy trying to shame us with their wonderful acts of mercy towards the downtrodden.
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 5:27:38 PM
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ChainSaw
Posts: 1554
Joined: 10/17/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lady_Daffodil
Thanks, Chainsaw, that makes sense to me. Actually a question I should ask the person who posted that about a person not being saved unless they witness is, where in the scriptures does it say that?
There are several passages of scripture that imply it. I'll share them as I have time.
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 5:38:46 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5352
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChainSaw
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
Witnessing is very important to God, not to mention the basis of the great commission.
1 Peter 3:15 ...but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, ...
Evangelism might be a spiritual gift, but for the rest of us, it is more of a matter of obedience, gratefullness wth thanksgiving for our own salvation.
But still...witnessing is not salvific.
Unless you have a Pauline type calling, witnessing is a sacrifice of your service, not a required obedience. And according to Romans 12 it's a sacrifice you make according to your giftedness and faith to walk in that giftedness, not a sacrifice made according to someone else's gifting and level of faith.
Hmmm...I can't necessarily agree with that. I can see that it would be a fruit of a mature walk in Christ...to spread His word, etc.
But none of that will get you into heaven anyhow. 
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RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/13/2010 5:39:24 PM
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19ramman85
Posts: 757
Joined: 4/10/2008
From: Sandusky, MI
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rmoore1925
The insidious part of this false Gospel in Galatians is that it didn’t completely
eliminate Jesus from the equation. It was a “Jesus plus” false message. Jesus
plus certain rules. Jesus plus certain practices. Jesus plus certain traditions.
What are some of the “Jesus plus” additions that get added to our faith these
days?
Forgive my ignorance - but could you give me the verse/chapter this relates too?
'Cuase this is the 1st I've heard of it!
Thanx! ;)
-charles
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