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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 2/2/2010 12:29:03 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
when the side effects became so unpleasant that he stopped taking them, the withdrawal symptoms (cramps, dizziness, headaches) were torture From the above link.
This jumped out at me. The individual stopped taking them because he said the side effects were so unpleasant. What if the only side effect he suffered was something others would consider very minor? He stopped taking them and suffered withdrawal symptoms. Did he stop cold-turkey or under a doctor's supervision? Withdrawal can be far more severe when meds are withdrawn instantly instead of a gradual (and sometimes very gradual) cutdown.
The reliability of patients being honest and taking their antidepressant as prescribed also needs to be considered. There are a considerable number of people who will don't take medication exactly as prescribed and this does affect the effectiveness of medication.
And for those with chronic depression, there are many psychological therapies that can and should be offered to help people deal with their condition. The article does not mention that (though I may have missed it).
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Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 2/2/2010 6:47:32 PM
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pink..
Posts: 11020
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From: Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapetos
quote:
when the side effects became so unpleasant that he stopped taking them, the withdrawal symptoms (cramps, dizziness, headaches) were torture From the above link.
This jumped out at me. The individual stopped taking them because he said the side effects were so unpleasant. What if the only side effect he suffered was something others would consider very minor? He stopped taking them and suffered withdrawal symptoms. Did he stop cold-turkey or under a doctor's supervision? Withdrawal can be far more severe when meds are withdrawn instantly instead of a gradual (and sometimes very gradual) cut-down.
The reliability of patients being honest and taking their antidepressant as prescribed also needs to be considered. There are a considerable number of people who will don't take medication exactly as prescribed and this does affect the effectiveness of medication.
And for those with chronic depression, there are many psychological therapies that can and should be offered to help people deal with their condition. The article does not mention that (though I may have missed it).
Those are good questions, aga. The article doesn't come out for another six days yet. (I think that is when it goes on the newsstands.) Newsweek is pretty reputable. I'm sure they must have an e-mail in the article where you could ask those questions.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mollymouser
quote:
ORIGINAL: Coltblue
NEWSWEEK ARTICLE ABOUT ANTIDEPRESSANTS
What a very interesting article. Thanks for posting it.
You're welcome.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 2/3/2010 5:38:26 AM
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heremainsfaithful
Posts: 1137
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The fact that the "business" side of AD's and other drugs has become so big does make me sad.
But still, the thing that is making me saddest right now is the reinforcement that metal illness is still a "back door disease." It really is. People will have long and many discussions about Susie's diabetes or Aunt Flossy's toe fungus, but mention mental illness.......(enter crickets chirping). Or it's okay to mention it as long as you use that page of the coloring book and don't color out of those lines.
Actually, the back door thing really doesn't make me sad right now. It just makes me plain mad. I had a former administrator tell me flat out, "I don't believe in mental illness." Honestly, I can respect her more than someone who says, "Well,honey, I do believe it's real, but let's just not talk about it too loudly cause it might make someone uncomfortable, okay sweetie?"
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 2/3/2010 11:28:55 PM
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Mollymouser
Posts: 5873
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From: california, land of the happy cows
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quote:
ORIGINAL: heremainsfaithful
The fact that the "business" side of AD's and other drugs has become so big does make me sad.
But still, the thing that is making me saddest right now is the reinforcement that metal illness is still a "back door disease." It really is. People will have long and many discussions about Susie's diabetes or Aunt Flossy's toe fungus, but mention mental illness.......(enter crickets chirping). Or it's okay to mention it as long as you use that page of the coloring book and don't color out of those lines.
Actually, the back door thing really doesn't make me sad right now. It just makes me plain mad. I had a former administrator tell me flat out, "I don't believe in mental illness." Honestly, I can respect her more than someone who says, "Well,honey, I do believe it's real, but let's just not talk about it too loudly cause it might make someone uncomfortable, okay sweetie?"
I do think things are improving in this area ~ though I will agree there is room for more improvement. Years ago, you hardly heard about mental illness and things like depression, now TV seems to be filled with commercials for various prescription medications for various mental illnesses. In some ways, maybe this is a good thing?
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 2/4/2010 2:05:32 AM
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desert_rose
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What peeves me endlessly about AD's is that they're prescribed by docs who don't necessarily know enough about mental health (and generally don't know anything about it). I also know because of friends and family that AT LEAST SOME who take them are taking them hoping for chemical answers to situational problems (as if taking "miracle pill 2000" is going to solve the issues of 4 unruly kids, not having nearly enough money and not getting along with the spouse) or who take them because so often society, general practitioners or even the marketers of the antidepressants think that "less chipper than a cheerleader hyped up on stimulants" means depressed - when some people can be calm and happy or introverted and happy, etc. Happiness does NOT come in a one-size-fits-all version like outgoing-life-of-the-party-productive-worker.  If the person isn't honestly depressed or they or their doc are thinking that not depressed is WAY beyond where depression really ends - how are they going to know HONESTLY if the medication is working or not?!? If the problem is caused or exacerbated by situational problems, the counseling and/or action is pretty much guaranteed to be necessary AS the solution or at least as part of it - medication alone generally won't treat situational depression though it can help you get far enough out of a rut to deal with a situation.
The other thing that peeves me is that so much that comes out that questions medications - safety or their use - often (but far from always) traces to an anti-psychiatry source. OF COURSE anti-psychiatry sources are going to speak against psychiatry - doctors, treatments, medications, whatever... I just wish they'd use proper ethics/professionalism and disclose their relationship to the subject at hand.
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Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 2/4/2010 8:06:41 PM
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pink..
Posts: 11020
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mollymouser
I've often wondered why a lot more people seem to take prescription medications for mental health problems than seem to be involved in concurrent counseling and therapy. It seems to me that if someone is ill enough to need the prescription, then they are ill enough to need simultaneous therapy + counseling.
I think that much of that has to do with insurance companies. They often cover very little, if any, therapy or pdoc appts. However, they will cover meds and GP visits, which is my guess as to why so many GPs give MH meds.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 2/4/2010 10:56:43 PM
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RainbowSkies
Posts: 560
Joined: 2/28/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: heremainsfaithful
The fact that the "business" side of AD's and other drugs has become so big does make me sad.
But still, the thing that is making me saddest right now is the reinforcement that metal illness is still a "back door disease." It really is. People will have long and many discussions about Susie's diabetes or Aunt Flossy's toe fungus, but mention mental illness.......(enter crickets chirping). Or it's okay to mention it as long as you use that page of the coloring book and don't color out of those lines.
Actually, the back door thing really doesn't make me sad right now. It just makes me plain mad. I had a former administrator tell me flat out, "I don't believe in mental illness." Honestly, I can respect her more than someone who says, "Well,honey, I do believe it's real, but let's just not talk about it too loudly cause it might make someone uncomfortable, okay sweetie?"
quote:
The other thing that peeves me is that so much that comes out that questions medications - safety or their use - often (but far from
I totally agree with that. I mean I can't even count the times, I have had the book of Phil. thrown at me and then followed up by how sinful it is that I am not putting enough trust in God to know that things are going to be ok.
You know what????? The bible doesn't say that we are all going to be happy. It says we are going to have troubles and life won't be a bowl of cherries. I don't believe that God gave those companies the ability to find the chemicals in the brain that control those emotions and make a drug that helps.
And I hate medication. I hate having to take it because it makes me feel like such a failure that I couldn't just "snap out of it" or "have enough trust in God" But at the same time, I know that what I have is real and if I don't take medication, I do think suicide. I also know that when I do take medication, everything isn't always good, but at least I can keep those thoughts just thoughts and not actions.
I don't tell many people about me, but at the same time, sometimes you have to. There are situations where you have no choice. I have a neighbor who actually told my husband that he needs to put his foot down and tell me to stop my meds. At least my husband sees me enough to know what happens when I am off my meds and that they are helpful to me which makes it helpful to him and my kids.
I am going to stop now because I am thinking of all those things that I have been told and getting mad. But I just get so angry when people won't accept that depression or anxiety or any other mental illness or disorder is a real thing. I wish that for one day, those people could feel as low as I have at times and then come back and tell me that they wouldn't have tried a medication if they thought it could help them.
My other biggest problem is when people say that you are just having a pity party. When I am depressed, I don't feel sorry for myself. I wonder why I am here, what my purpose is, and why I feel the way I fell, and why I can't make myself feel better. That isn't pity. I am not saying why me or woe is me. I hate it and I want out of it as bad as the people who have cancer want out of that.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 2/4/2010 11:01:20 PM
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RainbowSkies
Posts: 560
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mollymouser
I've often wondered why a lot more people seem to take prescription medications for mental health problems than seem to be involved in concurrent counseling and therapy. It seems to me that if someone is ill enough to need the prescription, then they are ill enough to need simultaneous therapy + counseling.
I think that the people who are just on the meds and not in therapy are the same people that see a commercial on tv, know they are depressed, but go to the general doc rather than a psychiatrist who manages medication, and a therapist who works with you in therapy.
I will not let my family doc prescribe those medications because I choose to have someone who is trained specifically in that area to do that. First, they are up on all of the meds, and see first hand what works for most people and what doesn't. Second, family docs sometimes tend to either over medicate or under medicate and what good does that do? I love my family doc, but I don't think she is qualified to manage my medications and mental health. But the family doc, more often than not will tell you to take the meds and see how they work and not suggest therapy UNLESS nothing is working for you.
And yes, insurance does play a role. Mental health parts of most insurances have limited benefits and higher deductibles. Too bad. I know way too many people who are dead today because they didn't have the coverage or the money to pay the bills.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 2/5/2010 12:20:55 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4246
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RainbowSkies
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mollymouser
I've often wondered why a lot more people seem to take prescription medications for mental health problems than seem to be involved in concurrent counseling and therapy. It seems to me that if someone is ill enough to need the prescription, then they are ill enough to need simultaneous therapy + counseling.
I think that the people who are just on the meds and not in therapy are the same people that see a commercial on tv, know they are depressed, but go to the general doc rather than a psychiatrist who manages medication, and a therapist who works with you in therapy.
I will not let my family doc prescribe those medications because I choose to have someone who is trained specifically in that area to do that. First, they are up on all of the meds, and see first hand what works for most people and what doesn't. Second, family docs sometimes tend to either over medicate or under medicate and what good does that do? I love my family doc, but I don't think she is qualified to manage my medications and mental health. But the family doc, more often than not will tell you to take the meds and see how they work and not suggest therapy UNLESS nothing is working for you.
And yes, insurance does play a role. Mental health parts of most insurances have limited benefits and higher deductibles. Too bad. I know way too many people who are dead today because they didn't have the coverage or the money to pay the bills.
Or they are someone who does know why they feel the way they do, have been to therapy, and choose not to talk about it ad nauseum when they can talk themselves through things and take a maintenance dose of medication.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 2/15/2010 3:29:38 PM
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RainbowSkies
Posts: 560
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Or they are someone who does know why they feel the way they do, have been to therapy, and choose not to talk about it ad nauseum when they can talk themselves through things and take a maintenance dose of medication.
Yes, but that is kind of different than people who take meds and have never been to see a therapist. Personally, I know that chemical depression exists and that it can happen to anyone even if they have had the perfect life. But I feel that even those people should try therapy if they are going to be on meds because a therapist can help you work through some of those feelings no matter where they come from and can cut the recovery time down.
As for me, I can feel it when I am not on my meds and if I go off of them, things are not good. I think and do things that could be harmful and my therapist has been a huge help there.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 3/15/2010 2:48:30 PM
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brianm73
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Is it wrong for a Christian to use anti-drepressants?
I was on them at one time, but took myself off of them. The reason for doing so was I wanted to know if it was Gods strength making me coop better or the drugs. To be honest I was doing fine until a few weeks ago. I cant sleep, my appetite comes and goes, and I am very moody. I explode at work and cry myself to sleep, then dont want to get up in the morning. I try and be strong and put on a happy face, but inside I just want to die.
I called my doctor and he is going to refill my prescription.
Am I wrong? Should I be relying on God more???
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 3/15/2010 6:14:18 PM
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tacitus
Posts: 2314
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No you are not wrong. If you were so depressed that you wanted to die then you needed professional medical help, urgently. You did exactly the right thing, and you should never feel guilty for doing something like that. Indeed, if the those feelings persist, you need to talk to someone about them too.
Your brain is constantly coursing with all kinds of chemicals -- hormones, endorphins, etc., and just like other parts of your body, things can go physically wrong. Since it is your brain it can have a serious mental effect, but the underlying cause is just as physical as if it was your arthritis in your foot. You wouldn't hesitate to see a doctor if your leg was hurt, and you shouldn't either if it's your brain.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 3/15/2010 7:19:27 PM
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manda59
Posts: 7687
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From: Hampshire, UK
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brianm73
I have hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid). For it I take thyroxine. That doesn't mean I'm not trusting God, it just means He helps me through my medication.
If someone is clinically depressed (which it sounds like you are), then it makes sense to be taking something which God can use to help you. Well, it makes sense to me anyway! Hopefully, it will now make sense to you and you won't beat yourself up over it any more!
If you'd broken your leg, would it be not trusting God if you had a plaster cast put on it?
(pssst if you come over to the Mental Health Encouragement thread, there's a number of us there who can help to support you)
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 3/25/2010 9:05:31 PM
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idlenomore
Posts: 19
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BrianM73,
I used to be kind of normal when I was younger. I got depressed and stufff and was often anxious but I battled it without meds. When I went to college in 98 I had a nervous breakdown and the doctor put me on psych meds including anti-depresants. I am still on psych meds 11 years later. There have been times that I thought that , like you, I was not trusting God enough by taking them. Each time that I went on my own to stop them I ended up in a terrible state. I have attempted suicide in that state. Don't let it get that far for you. Be fair to yourself. Jesus recogonized the sick need a physician. Medicine is just another tool that the physician now has.
God Bless You!
Andrew
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 5/11/2010 4:14:46 PM
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RainbowSkies
Posts: 560
Joined: 2/28/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brianm73
Is it wrong for a Christian to use anti-drepressants?
I was on them at one time, but took myself off of them. The reason for doing so was I wanted to know if it was Gods strength making me coop better or the drugs. To be honest I was doing fine until a few weeks ago. I cant sleep, my appetite comes and goes, and I am very moody. I explode at work and cry myself to sleep, then dont want to get up in the morning. I try and be strong and put on a happy face, but inside I just want to die.
I called my doctor and he is going to refill my prescription.
Am I wrong? Should I be relying on God more???
One of the biggest mistakes I made was confiding in a person who is a Christian, but unlike me, believes that all things come from God and don't really pass through other people like Doctors. I was so depressed that I almost followed through with my "exit plan" quite a few times. I have been treated and medications changed and changed again, and all the while, I was being told that I didn't need to go to therapy, I needed to go to bible study. The book of Philippians has been thrown in my face many more times than I can even count.
This is what I learned. God gave us doctors to use as his tools to help those of us who need that type of help. Someone here once told me it is the same as if you had diabetes. Would you not take your insulun because it would mean you are not putting your trust in God? NO.
Everytime I went through a med change, I stayed away from the people who were supposed to be there to support me because we just didn't agree and I was sick of feeling like I was doing something wrong by taking my meds, and I don't know how many times you have tried to change meds, but it is a process and sometimes during that process, you end up more depressed than you have ever been for a while. But that isn't God telling you anything. That is your body getting used to not being on the old drug, and building up the new drug. It was sad that I felt I had to stay away from those people because I was completely alone and can't mention the things I did. Now I made it a point to find Christian people who don't judge. It isn't their place to judge you on something like that.
It is sad that we have to basically fight this battle while others with medical conditions don't, but the fact is that there is still an element out there who thinks you should simply snap out of it, or repent because this is happening to you for a reason and then God will cure you. God would not have given doctors the tools he gave them if he didn't want us to take medications for depression.
You are relying on God simply by relying on that doctor who was given to you by God and using those medications that are only here because God gave the technology and brains to the right people to develop them. You put yourself into God's hands and let him lead you to where you need to go. He will. If he leads you to a doctor, then that is where he leads you. I hope I didn't scare you off by writing a book. I usually try to stay out of this thread, but your post sounded so familiar and if I would have listened to people telling me to skip my doc and rely on God, I would probably be dead today.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2010 5:10:39 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
Posts: 1970
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It is mental Health Awareness Month, and I wanted to ask your perceptions on stigma. Not the obvious, "look at that crazy nut" kind of stigma, but the subtle kind. Do you get the message at times that - esp in the Christian faith unfortunately - there is a subtle but very real attitude of , "We'll put up with you and pray for you, but stay in your corner"? It seems that I can go lots of places and be embraced as a mentally ill person outside of conservative Christianity, but within that circle, it is more of a "Yes, we accept you. See, we made you a table waaaaaay over there. Now don't get up and go sit with anyone else." This really really really bugs me. And I have heard the old "we do it for your protection so you won't get hurt" routine.....but I ain't buying it. Why can I examine every hangnail, every eyeshodow shade, every translation of II Hezekiah 4:15, but if I want to say........BIPOLAR, I need to go hide in the closet? It's an awful testimony to the rest of the world.
Thoughts?
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2010 8:38:45 PM
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RainbowSkies
Posts: 560
Joined: 2/28/2007
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No matter where you go, there are going to be people who look down on you if you mention any mental illness. Once, I was told by a well meaning person that I was choosing to follow satan because I was relying on my meds and my doc. She said, I just needed to be more involved with bible study. (Her Bible study) and never asked if I was involved in my church, which had she asked, she would have known that I am not only in a ministry, but I go to the Bible study at my church. But she didn't ask. And all that came from me calling her to ask how she was because she had a tumor removed from a breast. She didn't even let me ask if she was ok and if she needed something. That is why I haven't gone back to that particular study. BUT I love my current bible study and I have not ran across anybody who has been nothing but compassionate and offered to be there if I needed to talk. I think it depends on the mindset of the church. When we pray, we pray for those who are suffering from things like depression and anxiety. But not all churches are as embracing as mine.
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Formerly known as MrsTracy72
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2010 8:59:20 PM
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RainbowSkies
Posts: 560
Joined: 2/28/2007
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I stumbled on my aunt's facebook page and everything just flooded my mind. There were posts to say that they needed to get together, there were posts telling her that we miss her already, and I looked at posts from before, and we were just wishing her a happy birthday. It was so hard to see that. I still don't feel like this is real. My heart is just aching and I feel like none of this has happened and I am going to wake up any minute now and find out that this is just a bad dream.
I am struggling more than I have in my life and it is scary. I have never felt pain like this and for those of you who know me, My Godmother and aunt died of cancer and I thought that was hard because she was just wonderful. She took many of my private issues to the grave with her. But this time is so different. I just don't know what to do without her. I feel like I am just a shell.
And while I know this is true, but if I hear that she is in a better place now, I am going to scream. 4 people died on me this year and every time, I get that line. I know it is true, but right now, I just don't want to hear it. My pastor told me that death is a blessing because people who die get to see Jesus face to face and how wonderful that is. He also told me what a blessing it is. I kind of remember telling him that I really don't want anymore of these blessings. I don't know how much more I can handle. I just feel like it is too much.
I also think that it didn't help that I went to the hospital yesterday with the rest of my family after she had already passed and the person I saw couldn't be her. I don't want that to be my image that sticks in my head. I can still hear her voice and picture her going all around people at family gatherings and Just the way she just could bring people to Christ. When Mormans would come to the door, she would invite them in, and they would be in our church the following Sunday. That is how precious she is. We are to introduce people to Christ, but she took it much further and made it her mission to make sure that everyone she passed, heard about Christ and what a blessing it is to have him in our lives.
But I am not ready too let go, but at the same time, I just want to hide and keep myself medicated enough to stay asleep as long as I can. My P-doc is not happy about my nightly "cocktail" but he knows about it and not only does he moniter that and test my liver function, but he does tell me what I can mix and how much I can safely take. He said that while it wasn't what he wanted, he knew that I wasn't going to listen anyway so he gave me what I needed. Speaking of which, I need to do a few more things and then get off this computer.
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Formerly known as MrsTracy72
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Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2010 4:34:53 PM
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pink..
Posts: 11020
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From: Indiana
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Around PAGE 90 OF THE DUGGAR THREAD someone mentioned that they felt that Michelle Duggar suffered from mental illnesses issues and that is one of the reasons why she has had 19 children.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
I personally don't see how being of a quiverful mindset can be a symptom of mental illness. When people make statements like this, it really upsets me. It makes me feel that they are being flippant about MH issues and I think that it discourages people who really need help from getting the help that they need.
Link for those who are unfamiliar with who MICHELLE DUGGAR is.
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RE: Mental Health Debate - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2010 4:46:31 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
Posts: 1970
Joined: 3/23/2010
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I have several thoughts after reading the thread portion.
First, I do not think that one can use having a lot of kids as a singular diagnostic tool. I know that a friend of ours has had quite a few kids, and she DOES suffer from depression. She likes to be pregnant because she doesn't feel depressed when she is pregnant. But that doesn't mean Michelle Duggar has mental health problems.
The thing that DID bug me was the idea that being mental ill would be "nasty" or "malicious," like saying that is one of the worst things you can say about someone. Not very complimentary to those of us who are mentally ill, and very telling of some people's apparent attitude about mental illness.
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