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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/3/2010 4:52:34 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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quote:
I can't speak for all hospitals. If your friend was at my hospital, she would get the care she needed and then they would work with her on paying for it. And a bad gallbladder can lead to pancreatitis, so it's nothing to mess around with. I'm sorry that happened to her.
It is fairly common in Missouri. I do know that each state is different. To be fair, her bill was over 100,000 and they have already written off $40,000. They are trying to help her in other ways as well. But the whole situation has thrown them into foreclosure due to a cascade of events from the uninsured hospital stay and resulting surgery.
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Karen
Proud Member of the Imperfect Wives' Club
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/3/2010 5:28:23 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 486
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According to an average household budget, the Health Care percentage should be about 5.9% of Income per month.
How does that line up with your budget, and the cost of Medical care stated in this thread?
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/3/2010 5:34:25 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 9189
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
According to an average household budget, the Health Care percentage should be about 5.9% of Income per month.
How does that line up with your budget, and the cost of Medical care stated in this thread?
My take home pay is about $2700 a month and my portion of medical insurance is $670 a month. Like it was for us in the 1970s, we have learned to live simply again as, I suspect, God would rather we do anyway.
Where did you find that 5.9% figure?
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/3/2010 5:41:59 PM
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Abbreviated
Posts: 2268
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From: Kansas
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There needs to be inter state sales. Right now in Kansas we can buy from Blue Cross Blue Shield of Kansas or Coventry of Kansas. Insurance companies are NOT allowed to sell in other states.
If one needs a kidney transplant then insurance is important.
If one has had a kidney transplant the anti rejection drugs are over 400$/mo without insurance.
Congress needs to open up competition & let the free market work. Capitalism will work if they can sell in ALL 50 states.
We sit in the doctor's office every Monday for allergy shots & I can hear when they answer the phone. Each Monday they tell at least one person neither doctor is taking new Medicare nor Medicaid patients. I asked if that was for the rest of 2010 & she said they have been saying that for 2 years now.
So if you want a good doctor one may need non governmental health insurance.
< Message edited by Abbreviated -- 3/3/2010 5:51:32 PM >
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1959-20__ Who are you living your dash for ?
Jackie
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/3/2010 5:45:20 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 486
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quote:
Where did you find that 5.9% figure?
HERE
and
HERE
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/3/2010 5:50:46 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 9189
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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From the first link:
•No two families are alike
•Spending varies by income level
•Costs vary widely by region
•Costs vary widely by family size
•There are too many other factors to make general assumptions in many categories
I can't begin to say how far the rest of those "budgets" are from mine.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/3/2010 5:54:39 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
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Oh one thing, unless I misunderstand, each State, Not the Federal Government controls Health Care for their State; the Federal only suggest guidelines to be used. That's why I'm so confused about why & what the Congress/the Federal Government is actually doing. Can anyone help me out here?
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/3/2010 6:04:52 PM
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solo_soprano24
Posts: 2006
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From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: uncabeeil
quote:
I don't think it's a law that people have to treat you even if you can't pay Hospitals cannot refuse to treat you if you come in through the ER. They're only required to do the minimum, but they can't refuse treatment. That's why emergency rooms are so overcrowded..
I guess I'm thinking that they wouldn't be able to do much for me, except give me painkillers and send me on my way, when what I really need is treatment. (Painkillers, even narcotics, don't work.) Just say you need treatments for something that's debilitating, but not life-threatening, but you cannot pay. Does the ER have to treat you? And if they do it once, assuming that they CAN do it (specialists are needed), do they have to continue to treat you once that last treatment wears off? It seems like, unless you're about to die or have something that can lead to death, then the ER doesn't have to do much. I don't see how they can be used as a GP in that regard. Do they have to treat you if you have severe pain, but it's from something that's not going to kill you? That's the kind of stuff that I wonder.
It'd be a lot cheaper for me (and everyone else) to be able to get treated over time to prevent disability, rather than become disabled and have to have all kinds of government help for the rest of life. Some of the things I have can be life-threatening, but the chronic illnesses just get worse over time.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/3/2010 7:06:16 PM
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HisLamb26
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Hi solo,
There is a federal law that requires all EDs to treat emergencies...they also can not turn away a women in active labor. I'm not sure of this covers ED visits for things like chronic pain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/3/2010 7:35:49 PM
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macokjc
Posts: 502
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quote:
With a monthly income of $2,209.00; and paying out $5045.81 a year for health insurance that pays for no yearly physicals, and is a $800.00 deductible a year, no drugs, no dental, no eye exams or glasses; I just don't consider it a wise use of funds --- stewardship. I just have to trust in the Great Physician [Jesus Christ], our God, that if He allows anything to happen, he'll also help us find a way to pay for it --- so that we owe no man.
That's why it's called Health INSURANCE. I've got to tell you, paying out $5000 a year is nothing compared to what you will have to pay out if you
1. get cancer
2. get in a car accident
3. break a leg requiring surgery or therapy
4. Tear your rotator cuff by taking out the trash (talking from personal experience here.)
I could go on and on. In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to worry about it, and we wouldn't have to worry about paying it. Do you want to risk paying it for the rest of your lives, and losing everything you have over it? To me, that just doesn't seem wise.
Yes, they do need to sell Insurance over the state lines - that would be a big help - it would make competition, thus driving down the prices.
Also, to answer Lisa's earlier question, buying insurance has a ton of variables. They have to look at risk vs. cost, and then they will quote you a number. When you have a large company of thousands of healthy, middle age people, normally the risk will be small while the payout is larger - thus premiums go down. When you have smaller companies with older employees, the risk goes up, so the premiums go up. And then when you have a family buying their own insurance, the risk depends on the age/family history.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/4/2010 12:34:25 AM
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JustaFan
Posts: 710
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Health insurance can be very costly. Many of us would pay much, much less per month if we just paid for expenses as they came up.
Even if something really horrible happened and someone ended up with a really big hospital bill, couldn't they make payments on it that would be about what health insurance would have cost them had they had it? Even if they got cancer and then died before they were able to pay off their bill, the hospital could settle out of the person's estate.
What are your thoughts?
I think this is a horribly foolish and irresponsible idea for many reasons.
1. Health care is a lot more expensive than you seem to think.
2. You seem to assume that you will only have one or two medical bills that you can pay off.
3. You are not taking into account the expense if somebody in your family develops a chronic condition or becomes disabled and has ongoing high medical bills.
4. You will not get quality healthcare for your family because you will not be able to afford the diagnostic tests and preventative medicine that you should have. If you are unwilling to pay for insurance I can't imagine you will shell out for needed tests like colonoscopies, which can run to thousands of dollars.
5. You expect hospitals, doctors, etc. to hold the bag while you get around to paying for their services, if you ever do.
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Judith
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/4/2010 12:55:35 AM
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JustaFan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Well, I don't even make $3,000 a month. So if I found out I was diabetic and had those kinds of expenses, they'd have to take some kind of payment plan.
No, they wouldn't have to.
CVS, Rite Aid, and Walgrens are businesses, as are the pharmaceutical companies. It's not up to them to accomodate you if you haven't been responsible enough to plan for this eventuality.
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Judith
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/4/2010 1:12:56 AM
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JustaFan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SurpassingPeace
The truth is, in our country if you have money or good insurance you flat out get better care in most instances. For example, my son may need physical therapy. First Steps is coming out to do an evaluation but he probably will not qualify for the no charge care. Because we have insurance, he will still get the physical therapy that he needs if he needs it. We probably could not afford it if we didn't. Health insurance is peace of mind to me that whatever comes up, we will be taken care of and I won't have to be concerned how that will happen.
Things move faster and more easily with insurance. Providers would rather deal with you because they know that they will get a substantial portion of their charges.
Absolutely!
A person without insurance will by necessity make health decisions based on cost.
Example. A few years ago I had a perforated eardrum that would not heal on its own. I had surgery that fixed it. This would have cost almost $40,000. I have little doubt that I'd still be walking around being unable to hear out of that one ear if I'd had to pay for that on my own.
A colonoscopy, which we all should have after age 50, costs $2000, if I recall correctly. People who have polyps have to have one every two to five years. I know many people whose lives were saved when those polyps were removed. I used to know a woman who didn't have a colonoscopy, but she's dead from colon cancer now.
I never have to think about the cost of any of the tests my doctors order. I never have to let money be a factor in deciding if I'm going to see that specialist. I never have to ask my doctors how much a prescription will cost.
I'm sure that I'm getting better healthcare than somebody who doesn't have insurance or a prescription plan.
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Judith
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/4/2010 8:03:01 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5254
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From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
The pediatrician my sister works for pays close to $200,000/yr. in malpractice insurance.
That's crazy. I bet that's one of the biggest contributors to the high cost of health care. I wish there were some way to eliminate the need for malpractice insurance. Maybe protect doctors from lawsuits somehow? Or at least limit the dollar amount they could be sued for. Of course, then people who have been wronged by doctors who have been negligent wouldn't get justice. Maybe doctors who are just bad doctors could lose their licenses to practices and people should sign waivers to not hold them liable when they are treated. I mean, after all, sometimes things are misdiagnosed and accidents happen. If people didn't sue every time there was an accident, it wouldn't cost so much to go to the doctor.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/4/2010 8:13:11 AM
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SurpassingPeace
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Tort reform, is a hotly debated topic for many of the reasons you have stated Consecrated. Here is the truth and the problem, our system is flawed. There are alot of problems with it. But it does provide amazing medical care to many, by far not all, but many so people are scared to change it too much. I have to admit that the health care reforms going through Congress right now concern me because of the possibility of detrimental changes in my families health care and finances.
It is really meaningless to say that surgery is too expensive or malpractice insurance is ridiculous because although you are right, it is how it is. People want easy solutions to a complex and terribly messy problem. The nature of the beast is that someone will lose out. If it is one way, these people do not get quality healthcare. If this is that way, one group will get killed on more taxes. Being in the group that historically gets beat up with more taxes, these changes concern me. Although I don't want people to do without, I get tired of being the socioeconomic group that seems to continually bear the burden of all these problems financially.
I know the brutality of what can happen if even a semi major medical event happens without insurance. It is important enough to me that if something happened to my husbands insurance, I would work midnights at Walmart if I had to in order to provide my family with comprehensive health insurance.
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Karen
Proud Member of the Imperfect Wives' Club
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/4/2010 9:43:45 AM
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jhuperetes
Posts: 1948
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My parents laughed about 6 years ago and said forget this - and move out of the country. Both are highly trained doctors.
My brother, also a physician, quit his job in the US and moved overseas last year November. He is no slouch either, as he is invited to teach and research around the world. (Yes, I am the black sheep.)
He is tired of paying quarter of a million to insurance and lawyers.
Worse, he takes it personally when he is sued for something he was not even part of.
On call doctors, irrelevant of their involvement, field of expertise, get pulled into lawsuits.
Here is an example - my bro, a nephrologist (kidney specialist), was on call for kidney in a hospital in Florida. Lady of 92 died of heart failure, after a stroke and two heart attacks. All doctors on call, including my brother got sued for negligence. She was not one of his direct patients.
Total lawyer cost just to get to the point where they dropped him from the lawsuit (which was settled out of court as usual), close to $80,000.
And that was a simple case that never went to court.
Ever wonder why we need lawyers?
When did the law become so complicated that no mere layman can comprehend it?
Who are the ones continue to make it even more complex and obtuse?
I vote any lawyer that wants to pass the bar has to find 2 other lawyers and get them to give up their license.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/4/2010 11:47:49 AM
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solo_soprano24
Posts: 2006
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
The pediatrician my sister works for pays close to $200,000/yr. in malpractice insurance.
That's crazy. I bet that's one of the biggest contributors to the high cost of health care. I wish there were some way to eliminate the need for malpractice insurance. Maybe protect doctors from lawsuits somehow? Or at least limit the dollar amount they could be sued for. Of course, then people who have been wronged by doctors who have been negligent wouldn't get justice. Maybe doctors who are just bad doctors could lose their licenses to practices and people should sign waivers to not hold them liable when they are treated. I mean, after all, sometimes things are misdiagnosed and accidents happen. If people didn't sue every time there was an accident, it wouldn't cost so much to go to the doctor.
I don't think that's a good idea. Doctors shouldn't be untouchables, but people are too sue-happy. I believe some lawsuits are in order, but I don't believe that people should be stuck with whatever a doctor does with them not be held accountable when something terrible happens due to incompetence. 
I also think the general population doesn't realize how much money doctors have to pay out in malpractice insurance (I've seen obstetricians who've left the baby-delivering behind because malpractice took all they made). I know I've seen ob's in some areas paying out between to 200k-280k for malpractice in years past. I'm sure it's just getting worse, but it could be improving.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/4/2010 12:14:35 PM
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Abbreviated
Posts: 2268
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Kansas
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ER care costs 5 times as much as regular care.
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1959-20__ Who are you living your dash for ?
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/4/2010 1:23:21 PM
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davelinde
Posts: 1005
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Abbreviated
If one needs a kidney transplant then insurance is important.
Actually, no it's not.
End stage renal failure is covered by Medicare.
I do not know why. I suspect kidney patients had better lobbyists.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/4/2010 1:40:27 PM
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davelinde
Posts: 1005
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
The pediatrician my sister works for pays close to $200,000/yr. in malpractice insurance.
That's crazy. I bet that's one of the biggest contributors to the high cost of health care. I wish there were some way to eliminate the need for malpractice insurance.
In another thread it was reported that the CBO assumes malpractice is 0.5% of healthcare cost... so it's not the biggest contributor. Unless you factor some other part of it into the equation.
If you want to cry over a big costs. Consider a practice of 8 doctors in the US, they will have as many as 8 more people on staff doing record keeping and billing. They must deal with insurance companies who will intentionally delay payments for months and deny payment for any and every technicality. (and the system cost PAY for the insurance overheads of 20% too) They must deal with up to 20 DIFFERENT billing systems, rules, etc. In, say France, the equivalent practice may only need 1 or 2 additional people to handle records, there is ONE billing system, all records are centralized (and electronic) and doctors get paid in 30 days.
Still - I agree malpractice is out of wack. Other countries have different standards for allowing a party to seek damages and those rules WORK. The referenced doctor above might pay only 4,000 to 20,000 in malpractice and NEVER be named in a frivolous suit. Contrary to the fear... I do not think France, Germany, UK, Japan have thousands of "untouchable" doctors running amok because it's too hard to sue them. There is, of course, a balance to strike here.
btw - I do not consider $50,000,000 tagged to "study" tort reform a solution. That's SPENDING money, not saving it. YIKES!!!
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/4/2010 1:48:41 PM
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JustaFan
Posts: 710
Joined: 4/24/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
The pediatrician my sister works for pays close to $200,000/yr. in malpractice insurance.
That's crazy. I bet that's one of the biggest contributors to the high cost of health care. I wish there were some way to eliminate the need for malpractice insurance. Maybe protect doctors from lawsuits somehow? Or at least limit the dollar amount they could be sued for. Of course, then people who have been wronged by doctors who have been negligent wouldn't get justice. Maybe doctors who are just bad doctors could lose their licenses to practices and people should sign waivers to not hold them liable when they are treated. I mean, after all, sometimes things are misdiagnosed and accidents happen. If people didn't sue every time there was an accident, it wouldn't cost so much to go to the doctor.
I just heard a discussion of this on NPR. Malpractice insurance accounts for one half of one percent of medical costs. Doctors will always bring up malpractice insurance costs when discussing the high cost of healthcare, but evidently, that's a red herring.
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Judith
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/4/2010 2:00:38 PM
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davelinde
Posts: 1005
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jhuperetes
Here is an example...Lady of 92 died of heart failure, after a stroke and two heart attacks. All doctors on call, including my brother got sued for negligence. She was not one of his direct patients.
Total lawyer cost just to get to the point where they dropped him from the lawsuit (which was settled out of court as usual), close to $80,000.
The strategy is not unique to medicine btw and I find it reprehensible. Name everyone and anyone and force them to get lawyers to get off the suit. Part of the plan is that in the process of taking depositions from everyone everywhere the lawyers may stumble on some facts that help their case. Purely fishing.
A professional friend of mine was named as liable for something, he had no actual liability. The judge refused the first two requests to be dropped from the suit and he was on the hook for it over two years. He had to pay his own legal costs out of pocket. The other side was working on contingency and had a team of lawyers making paper. My friend had to pay $100's for each answered letter and $1000's for each court appearance.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/4/2010 2:09:11 PM
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davelinde
Posts: 1005
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JustaFan
Doctors will always bring up malpractice insurance costs when discussing the high cost of healthcare, but evidently, that's a red herring.
That is the CBO number I quoted above, and to a degree I believe it.
By way of comparison though - in countries with protection for doctor the absolute cost of the malpractice insurance can be 1/10 to 1/50 of the US cost - so to doctors it IS a big deal.
There is also the intangible cost to the doctor who endures (on average) 4 suits (many frivolous) in their career (vs an effective average of ZERO in other countries). Also the indirect cost of doctors doing "defensive medicine" - essentially doing tests they believe not needed for anything other than a defense in court "just in case". I've heard bigger numbers for that (eg up to 25% of test costs?)
Bottom line... malpractice = BIG cost for doctors, SMALL cost to total picture and BIG profit for lawyers. Lawyers win, Doctors lose, system incrementally worse - congress won't act contrary to lawyers interest.
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There are just two small children and perhaps a third to support throught their entire childhood and education. It shouldn't be THAT expensive.