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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/18/2010 11:01:22 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 1504
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quote:
ORIGINAL: disturbo
You have actually latched onto a theory of a very misled individual in denial.
Do your own homework rather than relying on the deceitful works of others.
It's ok to change your mind about what you believe. Maybe a little unbiased research on the matter will enlighten you.
God bless,
the D
I'm lost. Can you explain what you mean by the numbers...1988...22yrs. 2010?
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/19/2010 1:11:33 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 812
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shalom, disturbo.
quote:
ORIGINAL: disturbo
Can anyone quote a scripture verse that declares Christ returns "before" the tribulation?
Surely, if Christ is to return "before" the tribulation to remove His own, there must be one verse that states a pretribulational return of our Savior? Where is it?
Christ himself said that the gathering would occur "immediatly after the tribulation!"
Why then do so many christians believe that Christ returns "before" the tribulation?"
I know why! It's because an overwhelming number of so called "prophecy experts" say so! And how can they all be wrong? Right!
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
As far as dates go. We do not know the day or hour but we have enough information in the scriptures to know the season.
They can't give you one, because there isn't one. What they use is the fact that we are exempt from Wrath (Rom. 2:1-11; 5:9; 1 Thes. 1:10; 5:9), and therefore we must be taken out of the way before God can dump His Wrath on the rest of humanity.
HOWEVER, God is able to protect His children from His wrath without taking them out of the world! Some may accuse them of escapism, but I don't really believe that everyone who believes in a pre-trib rapture has an escapist mentality behind it, although it certainly is a position that lends itself to those who do.
They are also very quick to point out the differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming; however, what they fail to see is that they may simply be two stages of the same event!
They also believe that the distinctions between Israel and the church FORCE a pretribulation Rapture.
Finally, they also adhere to the doctrine of imminence. In other words, the fact that Yeshua` (Jesus) could come back at any time immediately without any further fulfillment of Scripture. By saying that the Rapture is next on God's agenda, it means that Yeshua` is ALWAYS to be expected, and nothing else must be accomplished before His arrival in the air.
Those are the primary arguments, but J. Dwight Pentecost gave a list of 28 arguments of the pretribulation rapturist in all:
A. The literal method of interpretation ... 193
B. The nature of the seventieth week ... 194
C. The scope of the seventieth week ... 195
D. The purpose of the seventieth week ... 197
E. The unity of the seventieth week ... 198
F. The nature of the church ... 199
G. The concept of the church as a mystery ... 200
H. The distinctions between Israel and the church ... 201
I. The doctrine of imminence ... 202
J. The work of the Restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2 ... 204
K. The necessity of an interval ... 205
L. Distinctions between the rapture and the second advent ... 206
M. The twenty-four elders ... 207
N. The problem behind 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 ... 209
O. The announcement of peace and safety ... 209
P. The relation of the church to governments ... 210
Q. The silence concerning the tribulation in the epistles ... 210
R. The message of the two witnesses ... 211
S. The destiny of the church ... 212
T. The message to Laodicea ... 212
U. The times of the Gentiles ... 213
V. The waiting remnant at the second advent ... 214
W. The sealed 144,000 from Israel ... 214
X. The chronology of the book of Revelation ... 214
Y. The great object of satanic attack ...215
Z. The apostasy of the period ... 215
AA. The promises to the true church ... 216
BB. The agreement of typology ... 217
(J. Dwight Pentecost, THINGS TO COME: A study in Biblical Eschatology, Dunham Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, MI, 1958, Table of Contents, pp. xviii-xix.)
We could challenge each of these, if one wishes. It might be fun to pursue!
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
_____________________________
The avatar above is a Venn diagram of the Kingdom from the sky. Yeshua`s Kingdom is in green, both dark green and light green.
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/19/2010 10:13:44 AM
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Montana Marv
Posts: 427
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Roy
Do you agree or disagree that the Church or Bride of Christ is gone (not around) at the 6th Trumpet.
In Christ
Montana Marv
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/19/2010 6:09:22 PM
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markinro
Posts: 5
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The date of Jesus return and the rapture of the church is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it WILL take place.
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/19/2010 6:34:53 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2531
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jasourdough
quote:
ORIGINAL: disturbo
Are you saying that you believe that we are well into the tribulation and that Armageddon is near?
This was the reason I worded my response the way I did. My apologies. It likely came across as a personal attack. This was most certainly not my intent.
All scripture concerning the great tribulation is now in view and has been for 22 years.
Dan 3:4 Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,
Dan 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
Dan 3:6 And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
quote:
All scripture concerning the great tribulation is now in view and has been for 22 years.
Here is how it works…
James gives us the pattern of things to come beginning when Lust has conceived and in general when one lusts an image is usually created in ones mind in the form of that lust.
Now if we look at Dan 3 we can see in the verses beforehand that the princes, the governors, and captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counselors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, were gathered together unto the dedication
In other words these rulers is what James was speaking of in verse 14 and as we see these a like manner in Dan 3 as a type of being drawn away of his own lust, (the rulers) and enticed
In the prophetic picture of setting up an image, this began in the 1960’s where we all can see Jam 1:15 speaking the pattern thereof…. saying….Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin:
No apply a time period for Lust with Gods divine judgment which is 40 years, with that judgment being spoken of here
And sin, ….when it is finished,
Now we have 40 years and 1 season,
Take a look at the end of this passage
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were “prolonged for a season”… and time.
OK so let’s say for example we have 1969+ when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: 40 years of lust = 2009 brings forth the SIN (as we can all see) and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Sin is only pleasurable FOR A SEASON… KEY!!!! SO when it is finished… is only for a season!
Therefore when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth “sin: and “sin, when it is finished,
where when it is finished… is… “AFTER” a season”
And what follows is … and time.
That word “TIME” there is very important and is used here in
Rev 12:12 to define the same
Therefore…. when it is finished (during the season) IT.... bringeth forth death. = the tribulation
We are in this time here as we speak… called the season
… and this season….. is now being subject to Gods divine Judgment because the 40 years has expired ….the time we are in now (SIN)…. is being “prolonged ....for ….a season”…
This here below (a time) follows and represents the tribulation
and “time”.
That word “time” there above that is a part of the prophetic whole where the pattern is a reflection of …. And is also “that day”, as mentioned here in Acts 17:31…… which is the same DAY…. Jesus mentioned as the “day” or the hour
Act 17:31
In other words the rapture of the Church will occur in this time frame called the season .
DO you know how long the Bible says that is…?
A season”(which we are now in) ??
… And time.= (that which is coming)??? We already know that one
Here is what Jesus said in like manner... concerning the same
Luke 12:42
quote:
All scripture concerning the great tribulation is now in view and has been for 22 years.
Actually, it’s been in view for thousands of years and all the markers are now matching up
…… but if one knows their prophetic word, then what Jesus was speaking of in Luke 12:42
Where…. He will give to “them =or US…..“Their portion of meat”>>> “in due… “Season”?
>>> That season>>> is consistent with what is going to be revealed…. as it is written in Act 17:31
And in began in 2009, in correspondence with the same season …. that is mentioned in Dan 17…. Along with…. that which was just reiterated above concerning the same pattern seen in Dan 3 and James 1
quote:
RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011?
It depends... ON how long a season is?
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 4/21/2010 2:49:28 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/19/2010 7:47:26 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 812
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
Dan 3:4 Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,
Dan 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
Dan 3:6 And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
All scripture concerning the great tribulation is now in view and has been for 22 years.
Here is how it works…
James gives us the pattern of things to come beginning when Lust has conceived.
Now if we look at Dan 3 we can see in the verses beforehand that the princes, the governors, and captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counselors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, were gathered together unto the dedication.
In other words these rulers are what James was speaking of in verse 14 and we see these in like manner in Dan 3 drawn away of his own lust, (the rulers) and enticed
In the prophetic picture of setting up an image, this began in the 1960’s where we all can see Jam 1:15 speaking the pattern thereof…. saying….Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin:
No apply a time period for Lust with Gods divine judgment which is 40 years, with that judgment being spoken of here
And sin, ….when it is finished,
Now we have 40 years and 1 season,
Take a look at the end of this passage
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were “prolonged for a season”… and time.
OK so let’s say for example we have 1969+ when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: 40 years of lust = 2009 brings forth the SIN (as we can all see) and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Sin is only pleasurable FOR A SEASON… KEY!!!! SO when it is finished… is only for a season!
Therefore when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth “sin: and “sin, when it is finished,
where when it is finished… is… “AFTER” a season”
And what follows is … and time.
That word “TIME” there is very important and is used here in
Rev 12:12 to define the same
Therefore…. when it is finished (during the season) IT.... bringeth forth death. = the tribulation
We are in this time here as we speak… called the season
… and this season….. is now being subject to Gods divine Judgment because the 40 years has expired ….the time we are in now (SIN)…. is being “prolonged ....for ….a season”…
This here below (a time) follows and represents the tribulation and “time”.
That word “time” there above that is a part of the prophetic whole where the pattern is a reflection of …. And is also “that day”, as mentioned here in Acts 17:31…… which is the same DAY…. Jesus mentioned as the “day” or the hour
Act 17:31
In other words the rapture of the Church will occur in this time frame called the season .
DO you know how long the Bible says that is…?
A season”(which we are now in) ??
… And time.= (that which is coming)??? We already know that one
Here is what Jesus said in like manner... concerning the same
Luke 12:42
quote:
All scripture concerning the great tribulation is now in view and has been for 22 years.
Actually, it’s been in view for thousands of years and all the markers are now matching up
…… but if one knows their prophetic word, then what Jesus was speaking of in Luke 12:42
Where…. He will give to “them =or US…..“Their portion of meat”>>> “in due… “Season”?
>>> That season>>> is consistent with what is going to be revealed…. as it is written in Act 17:31
And in began in 2009, in correspondence with the same season …. that is mentioned in Dan 17…. Along with…. that which was just reiterated above concerning the same pattern seen in Dan 3 and James 1
quote:
RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011?
It depends... ON how long a season is?
LG
That's the most RIDICULOUS hodge-podge of non-sequiturs I've ever seen! You've managed to connect Dan. 3, Dan. 7, James 1, Rev. 12, and Luke 12 in preposterous ways that NEVER should have even been imagined! Talk about a REACH!
KEEP IT REAL!!! DON'T mix-n-match Scripture verses attempting to come up with a new recipe! READ THE SCRIPTURES and understand what they are trying to say DIRECTLY! LET THE SCRIPTURES SPEAK TO YOU IN THEIR CONTEXTS!!!!!
"How long a season is." BLECH! 
In the Messiah's love and in prayer for sanity!
Roy
_____________________________
The avatar above is a Venn diagram of the Kingdom from the sky. Yeshua`s Kingdom is in green, both dark green and light green.
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/19/2010 9:58:20 PM
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disturbo
Posts: 212
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
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In response to Milliecat,
I actually don't remember who came up with it but this is the story. The parable of the fig tree has been interpreted as being fulfilled by the British Mandate which allowed Israel to return to the homeland in 1948. Christ in His prophecies said that the generation that sees this event would also witness the fulfillment of certain cataclysmic events that "would not pass" until all of them were fulfilled. So, many people who believe that a Jewish generation is 40 years have concluded that 1988, i.e. 40 years after the Jews returned, Christ would return for his church.
Well on May 21 1988 there was no rapture. So instead of admitting a colossal prophecy blunder, the "prophet" if you will, just says that we have been in tribulation for 22 years, which brings us to 2010.
Now I'm confused!
D
< Message edited by disturbo -- 4/19/2010 10:04:54 PM >
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/19/2010 10:13:13 PM
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disturbo
Posts: 212
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
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In the years that I have studied the bible, I have found that the simplest interpretation is usually the correct one. It's absolutely incredible how complicated the experts have turned something pristine and simple into a fabricated mess.
What "disturbs" me is that many of these people have "doctorates!"
The rapture is actually a very simple doctrine to understand.
It truly is sad how the experts have misled so many into believing falsely about such a simple thing.
And it does matter what you believe about "when" it will happen.
I can explain more another day.
Goodnight!
D
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/19/2010 10:28:44 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3324
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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Since there is no rapture as we perceive it,
I won't loose any sleep over it or read the
entire thread.........LOL
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/20/2010 12:39:46 AM
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Milliecat
Posts: 1504
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: disturbo
In response to Milliecat,
I actually don't remember who came up with it but this is the story. The parable of the fig tree has been interpreted as being fulfilled by the British Mandate which allowed Israel to return to the homeland in 1948. Christ in His prophecies said that the generation that sees this event would also witness the fulfillment of certain cataclysmic events that "would not pass" until all of them were fulfilled. So, many people who believe that a Jewish generation is 40 years have concluded that 1988, i.e. 40 years after the Jews returned, Christ would return for his church.
Well on May 21 1988 there was no rapture. So instead of admitting a colossal prophecy blunder, the "prophet" if you will, just says that we have been in tribulation for 22 years, which brings us to 2010.
Now I'm confused!
D
Thank you for your response. I don't know why anyone thought a generation was 40yrs. Most people live into their 70's, 80's and 90's.
I do think the birth pains have begun. We've had five or six MAJOR earthquakes on this earth already this year.
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/20/2010 12:47:04 AM
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Milliecat
Posts: 1504
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Since there is no rapture as we perceive it,
I won't loose any sleep over it or read the
entire thread.........LOL
I usually agree with you so I'm somewhat surprised. How do you think it should be perceived? I can go along with a pre-trib, mid-trib or pre-wrath, not post-trib...or none at all. I think that I am hoping for a pre-trib and 2011 or tonight would be fine with me simply because I am spoiled and not used to suffering too much and I want to see Jesus. But I'll go along with whatever God wants.
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/20/2010 2:18:32 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 812
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
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Shalom, disturbo.
quote:
ORIGINAL: disturbo
In the years that I have studied the bible, I have found that the simplest interpretation is usually the correct one. It's absolutely incredible how complicated the experts have turned something pristine and simple into a fabricated mess.
What "disturbs" me is that many of these people have "doctorates!"
The rapture is actually a very simple doctrine to understand.
It truly is sad how the experts have misled so many into believing falsely about such a simple thing.
And it does matter what you believe about "when" it will happen.
I can explain more another day.
Goodnight!
D
Reminds me of a little diddy I learned as a child: "It's strange how much you have to know before you know how little you know." For some people, however, apparently they never quite got the truth in that.
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
_____________________________
The avatar above is a Venn diagram of the Kingdom from the sky. Yeshua`s Kingdom is in green, both dark green and light green.
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/20/2010 2:31:50 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 812
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
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Shalom, Milliecat.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Milliecat
quote:
ORIGINAL: disturbo
In response to Milliecat,
I actually don't remember who came up with it but this is the story. The parable of the fig tree has been interpreted as being fulfilled by the British Mandate which allowed Israel to return to the homeland in 1948. Christ in His prophecies said that the generation that sees this event would also witness the fulfillment of certain cataclysmic events that "would not pass" until all of them were fulfilled. So, many people who believe that a Jewish generation is 40 years have concluded that 1988, i.e. 40 years after the Jews returned, Christ would return for his church.
Well on May 21 1988 there was no rapture. So instead of admitting a colossal prophecy blunder, the "prophet" if you will, just says that we have been in tribulation for 22 years, which brings us to 2010.
Now I'm confused!
D
Thank you for your response. I don't know why anyone thought a generation was 40yrs. Most people live into their 70's, 80's and 90's.
I do think the birth pains have begun. We've had five or six MAJOR earthquakes on this earth already this year.
I can help with that one. It comes from this particular verse in Isra'el's history:
Num 32:13
13 And the Lord's anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the Lord, was consumed.
KJV
Thus, it was the time for one set of adults to be replaced by the next set of adults.
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
_____________________________
The avatar above is a Venn diagram of the Kingdom from the sky. Yeshua`s Kingdom is in green, both dark green and light green.
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/20/2010 8:19:07 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2531
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
Dan 3:4 Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,
Dan 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
Dan 3:6 And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
All scripture concerning the great tribulation is now in view and has been for 22 years.
Here is how it works…
James gives us the pattern of things to come beginning when Lust has conceived.
Now if we look at Dan 3 we can see in the verses beforehand that the princes, the governors, and captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counselors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, were gathered together unto the dedication.
In other words these rulers are what James was speaking of in verse 14 and we see these in like manner in Dan 3 drawn away of his own lust, (the rulers) and enticed
In the prophetic picture of setting up an image, this began in the 1960’s where we all can see Jam 1:15 speaking the pattern thereof…. saying….Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin:
No apply a time period for Lust with Gods divine judgment which is 40 years, with that judgment being spoken of here
And sin, ….when it is finished,
Now we have 40 years and 1 season,
Take a look at the end of this passage
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were “prolonged for a season”… and time.
OK so let’s say for example we have 1969+ when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: 40 years of lust = 2009 brings forth the SIN (as we can all see) and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Sin is only pleasurable FOR A SEASON… KEY!!!! SO when it is finished… is only for a season!
Therefore when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth “sin: and “sin, when it is finished,
where when it is finished… is… “AFTER” a season”
And what follows is … and time.
That word “TIME” there is very important and is used here in
Rev 12:12 to define the same
Therefore…. when it is finished (during the season) IT.... bringeth forth death. = the tribulation
We are in this time here as we speak… called the season
… and this season….. is now being subject to Gods divine Judgment because the 40 years has expired ….the time we are in now (SIN)…. is being “prolonged ....for ….a season”…
This here below (a time) follows and represents the tribulation and “time”.
That word “time” there above that is a part of the prophetic whole where the pattern is a reflection of …. And is also “that day”, as mentioned here in Acts 17:31…… which is the same DAY…. Jesus mentioned as the “day” or the hour
Act 17:31
In other words the rapture of the Church will occur in this time frame called the season .
DO you know how long the Bible says that is…?
A season”(which we are now in) ??
… And time.= (that which is coming)??? We already know that one
Here is what Jesus said in like manner... concerning the same
Luke 12:42
quote:
All scripture concerning the great tribulation is now in view and has been for 22 years.
Actually, it’s been in view for thousands of years and all the markers are now matching up
…… but if one knows their prophetic word, then what Jesus was speaking of in Luke 12:42
Where…. He will give to “them =or US…..“Their portion of meat”>>> “in due… “Season”?
>>> That season>>> is consistent with what is going to be revealed…. as it is written in Act 17:31
And in began in 2009, in correspondence with the same season …. that is mentioned in Dan 7…. Along with…. that which was just reiterated above concerning the same pattern seen in Dan 3 and James 1
quote:
RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011?
It depends... ON how long a season is?
LG
That's the most RIDICULOUS hodge-podge of non-sequiturs I've ever seen! You've managed to connect Dan. 3, Dan. 7, James 1, Rev. 12, and Luke 12 in preposterous ways that NEVER should have even been imagined! Talk about a REACH!
KEEP IT REAL!!! DON'T mix-n-match Scripture verses attempting to come up with a new recipe! READ THE SCRIPTURES and understand what they are trying to say DIRECTLY! LET THE SCRIPTURES SPEAK TO YOU IN THEIR CONTEXTS!!!!!
"How long a season is." BLECH!
In the Messiah's love and in prayer for sanity!
Roy
Greetings
quote:
KEEP IT REAL!!! DON'T mix-n-match Scripture verses attempting to come up with a new recipe! READ THE SCRIPTURES and understand what they are trying to say DIRECTLY!
Since the food is already on the table and I believe nothing less than the Apostles reiterations of the OT... as transposed into the new
....perhaps in your OT expertise...we were hoping someone with those credentials could answer the question
How long.... was that prophetic “season... specifically mentioned in Dan 7?
According to that same scripture?
Keep it clean ... I already know the answer …
can I get a witness?
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 4/20/2010 3:09:33 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/20/2010 1:50:22 PM
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Coffee_Drinker
Posts: 175
Joined: 5/20/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nightandday
I was listening to Family Radio the other day, and I heard for the first time Harold Camping's theory about the date of the Rapture being May 21, 2011.
I wonder what time zone? Mountain? Central? What a minute! That's on a Wednesday. Right in the middle of the week. I have to work that day.
I wonder if he's any relation to Popov?
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/21/2010 2:26:51 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 812
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
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Shalom, LoyalGypsy.
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
Dan 3:4 Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,
Dan 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
Dan 3:6 And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
All scripture concerning the great tribulation is now in view and has been for 22 years.
Here is how it works…
James gives us the pattern of things to come beginning when Lust has conceived.
Now if we look at Dan 3 we can see in the verses beforehand that the princes, the governors, and captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counselors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, were gathered together unto the dedication.
In other words these rulers are what James was speaking of in verse 14 and we see these in like manner in Dan 3 drawn away of his own lust, (the rulers) and enticed
In the prophetic picture of setting up an image, this began in the 1960’s where we all can see Jam 1:15 speaking the pattern thereof…. saying….Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin:
No apply a time period for Lust with Gods divine judgment which is 40 years, with that judgment being spoken of here
And sin, ….when it is finished,
Now we have 40 years and 1 season,
Take a look at the end of this passage
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were “prolonged for a season”… and time.
OK so let’s say for example we have 1969+ when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: 40 years of lust = 2009 brings forth the SIN (as we can all see) and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Sin is only pleasurable FOR A SEASON… KEY!!!! SO when it is finished… is only for a season!
Therefore when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth “sin: and “sin, when it is finished,
where when it is finished… is… “AFTER” a season”
And what follows is … and time.
That word “TIME” there is very important and is used here in
Rev 12:12 to define the same
Therefore…. when it is finished (during the season) IT.... bringeth forth death. = the tribulation
We are in this time here as we speak… called the season
… and this season….. is now being subject to Gods divine Judgment because the 40 years has expired ….the time we are in now (SIN)…. is being “prolonged ....for ….a season”…
This here below (a time) follows and represents the tribulation and “time”.
That word “time” there above that is a part of the prophetic whole where the pattern is a reflection of …. And is also “that day”, as mentioned here in Acts 17:31…… which is the same DAY…. Jesus mentioned as the “day” or the hour
Act 17:31
In other words the rapture of the Church will occur in this time frame called the season .
DO you know how long the Bible says that is…?
A season”(which we are now in) ??
… And time.= (that which is coming)??? We already know that one
Here is what Jesus said in like manner... concerning the same
Luke 12:42
quote:
All scripture concerning the great tribulation is now in view and has been for 22 years.
Actually, it’s been in view for thousands of years and all the markers are now matching up
…… but if one knows their prophetic word, then what Jesus was speaking of in Luke 12:42
Where…. He will give to “them =or US…..“Their portion of meat”>>> “in due… “Season”?
>>> That season>>> is consistent with what is going to be revealed…. as it is written in Act 17:31
And in began in 2009, in correspondence with the same season …. that is mentioned in Dan 7…. Along with…. that which was just reiterated above concerning the same pattern seen in Dan 3 and James 1
quote:
RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011?
It depends... ON how long a season is?
LG
That's the most RIDICULOUS hodge-podge of non-sequiturs I've ever seen! You've managed to connect Dan. 3, Dan. 7, James 1, Rev. 12, and Luke 12 in preposterous ways that NEVER should have even been imagined! Talk about a REACH!
KEEP IT REAL!!! DON'T mix-n-match Scripture verses attempting to come up with a new recipe! READ THE SCRIPTURES and understand what they are trying to say DIRECTLY! LET THE SCRIPTURES SPEAK TO YOU IN THEIR CONTEXTS!!!!!
"How long a season is." BLECH!
In the Messiah's love and in prayer for sanity!
Roy
Greetings
quote:
KEEP IT REAL!!! DON'T mix-n-match Scripture verses attempting to come up with a new recipe! READ THE SCRIPTURES and understand what they are trying to say DIRECTLY!
Since the food is already on the table and I believe nothing less than the Apostles reiterations of the OT... as transposed into the new
....perhaps in your OT expertise...we were hoping someone with those credentials could answer the question
How long.... was that prophetic “season... specifically mentioned in Dan 7?
According to that same scripture?
Keep it clean ... I already know the answer …
can I get a witness?
LG
You want it? You got it! It's the same as the "season" in Eccl. 3:
Eccl 3:1-8
1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
KJV
OT:2166 zeman (Aramaic) (zem-awn'); from OT:2165; the same as OT:2165:
KJV - season, time.
OT:2165 zeman (zem-awn'); from OT:2163; an appointed occasion:
KJV - season, time.
OT:5732 `iddan (Aramaic) (id-dawn'); from a root corresponding to that of OT:5708; a set time; technically, a year:
KJV - time.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
The Aramaic "season" (sometimes rendered "time") is found in Ezra 5:3; Dan. 2:16, 21; 3:7, 8; 4:36; 6:10, 13; 7:12, 22, 25.
The Hebrew "season" (sometimes rendered "time") is found in Neh. 2:6; Est. 9:27, 31; and Eccl. 3:1 above.
The Aramaic "time" is found in Dan. 2:8, 9, 21; 3:5, 15; 4:16, 23, 25, 32; 7:12, 25 (3x).
I would recommend for this discussion that you check out how the words are used in the other passages, particularly those found in the other Dani'el passages. For instance, you might want to check out Dan. 7:25:
Dan 7:25
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
KJV
The first instance of "times" is OT:2166; the other instances of "time" or "times" are OT:5732.
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
_____________________________
The avatar above is a Venn diagram of the Kingdom from the sky. Yeshua`s Kingdom is in green, both dark green and light green.
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/22/2010 6:49:02 AM
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prophecyteacher
Posts: 160
Joined: 1/18/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Milliecat
quote:
ORIGINAL: disturbo
In response to Milliecat,
I actually don't remember who came up with it but this is the story. The parable of the fig tree has been interpreted as being fulfilled by the British Mandate which allowed Israel to return to the homeland in 1948. Christ in His prophecies said that the generation that sees this event would also witness the fulfillment of certain cataclysmic events that "would not pass" until all of them were fulfilled. So, many people who believe that a Jewish generation is 40 years have concluded that 1988, i.e. 40 years after the Jews returned, Christ would return for his church.
Well on May 21 1988 there was no rapture. So instead of admitting a colossal prophecy blunder, the "prophet" if you will, just says that we have been in tribulation for 22 years, which brings us to 2010.
Now I'm confused!
D
Thank you for your response. I don't know why anyone thought a generation was 40yrs. Most people live into their 70's, 80's and 90's.
I do think the birth pains have begun. We've had five or six MAJOR earthquakes on this earth already this year.
The reason a generation was considered 40 years is because that is how long the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness. Psalm 90 though states that the time appointed for our lives is 70-80 years.
According to others the reason to use 1948 is that they believe that that year was the fulfillment of prophecy.
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/26/2010 12:21:52 AM
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Milliecat
Posts: 1504
Joined: 11/13/2007
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Thank you, Roy and prophecyteacher. So if a generation is 70-80 yrs., we must be getting close. Come, Lord Jesus!
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/26/2010 12:41:05 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1811
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Milliecat
Thank you, Roy and prophecyteacher. So if a generation is 70-80 yrs., we must be getting close. Come, Lord Jesus!
Generation can also mean "race" or "nation". And in fact, that meaning would be more suitable for the Olivet Dicourse. The nation of Israel was considered as non-existent before 1948. Since then it has not only existed but flourished, in spite of Arab hatred and hostility. This "nation" of Israel "shall not pass [away], till all things be fulfilled" (Mt. 24:34).
When all things are fulfilled the secular Zionist nation of Israel will be replaced by redeemed and restored Israel under Christ.
But we should not be setting dates because of the duration of a generation of people. Those who think May 21, 2011 is "the" date are in for a surprise.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/26/2010 9:22:29 AM
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bettymackII
Posts: 2348
Joined: 4/28/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
ORIGINAL: Milliecat
Thank you, Roy and prophecyteacher. So if a generation is 70-80 yrs., we must be getting close. Come, Lord Jesus!
Generation can also mean "race" or "nation". And in fact, that meaning would be more suitable for the Olivet Dicourse. The nation of Israel was considered as non-existent before 1948. Since then it has not only existed but flourished, in spite of Arab hatred and hostility. This "nation" of Israel "shall not pass [away], till all things be fulfilled" (Mt. 24:34).
When all things are fulfilled the secular Zionist nation of Israel will be replaced by redeemed and restored Israel under Christ.
But we should not be setting dates because of the duration of a generation of people. Those who think May 21, 2011 is "the" date are in for a surprise.
I put the sentence in bold letters!
Yes,they will be surprised or be disappointed (again) by another date-setting
failure.
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/26/2010 9:38:57 AM
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bettymackII
Posts: 2348
Joined: 4/28/2007
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Don't pre-tribbers believe the rapture can happen at any moment?
May 21,2011 this date does not fit that theory!
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/26/2010 10:23:04 AM
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Montana Marv
Posts: 427
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bettymackII
Don't pre-tribbers believe the rapture can happen at any moment?
May 21,2011 this date does not fit that theory!
True
No date fits. The Rapture will happen when it happens. It could be tomorrow, or a year from now, no one knows. That is why "Today is the Day of Salvation", it is not future for we do not know when our time to die is. Tomorrow may be death to some, then no chance for Salvation. When the A/C (future world leader) makes his appearance, the last 7 years starts to tic (began). We can determine when the end of this age and the Second Coming are. But the Rapture cannot be determined.
In Christ
Montana Marv
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/26/2010 10:31:48 AM
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Coffee_Drinker
Posts: 175
Joined: 5/20/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bettymackII
Don't pre-tribbers believe the rapture can happen at any moment?
May 21,2011 this date does not fit that theory!
No. No one knows the day or the hour, except God.
quote:
Matthew 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mark 13:32
But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
If someone sets a date... quit listening to them.
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RE: Date of the Rapture: May 21, 2011? - 4/26/2010 11:33:58 AM
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theprincessbuttercup
Posts: 2292
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From: Boo Radley's back yard
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The question is....if 5/21/11 is the day, what am I going to do between now and then? Am I going to draw diagrams, or am I going to live for Jesus and share him with as many as I can? And how does that differ from how we should be living anyway?
On the way to my parents', there is this house that has these huge round paintings about Revelation and the Apolcalypse on them. I wonder how many people who have driven by that have been compelled to repent of sin and turn to Christ? Probably not many. Maybe we should put up our pointers and calculators and GET BUSY doing what Jesus said to do.
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